PG being incapable of anti-inf with the double shrek upgrade

Shocks have smoke????!!!! since when, THAT'S OP NERF!!!

Shit i thought they get smoke at vet 1 or so. My Bad

Yea, you cant have it both ways. Decide if you want either PGs with AI capabilities or AT.

Flame barrage for pak maybe.
Serious Note i do think PzGrens needs a little buff for surviveability. Only a tiny one but right now you rarely See them because they are to much of a gamble to Work with (1 model is often dieing on approach which takes away alot of dps on a 4 man squad.) Its like the t-34 unit is solid but not solid enough to be a common build choice

just a noob, no one should take into account my opinion, but I´ve seen in this forum lot of times people that don´t seems to use properly those PZGREENS......

Would you close the gap with your volks when facing rifles???no, you wouldn´t.

Would you mantain your SU shook troops squad at long range while facing obers???


Then, why are you trying to approach to the enemy squad with your PZGREEN???? as far as I know this unit is intended to be used at medium range......so, you don´t need to close the gap (losing one model while closing) but get cover and mantain your squad at their maximun DPS range, that in this case is mid-range....



If I´m wrong, sorry, as I´ve said, just a noob here....but it is just that I´ve seen this kind of comments when talking about PZGreens...ohh if I try to close the distance, I lost models, and then, I have to retreat...yeahhh, sure!!! bingo!!! if you try to fight a ober squad with you shock troop at long range, sure you will lose that fight....nothing wrong here, yes?? well, it is the same with PZGreens, you should use them at their best range, not at close range.

My really old video.
From 4 kills to 18 kills in one assault.
Sure, enemy could act better, but the same way, nade could do a way better...





@UP, you are right. They are not assault units.

just a noob, no one should take into account my opinion, but I´ve seen in this forum lot of times people that don´t seems to use properly those PZGREENS......

Would you close the gap with your volks when facing rifles???no, you wouldn´t.

Would you mantain your SU shook troops squad at long range while facing obers???


Then, why are you trying to approach to the enemy squad with your PZGREEN???? as far as I know this unit is intended to be used at medium range......so, you don´t need to close the gap (losing one model while closing) but get cover and mantain your squad at their maximun DPS range, that in this case is mid-range....



If I´m wrong, sorry, as I´ve said, just a noob here....but it is just that I´ve seen this kind of comments when talking about PZGreens...ohh if I try to close the distance, I lost models, and then, I have to retreat...yeahhh, sure!!! bingo!!! if you try to fight a ober squad with you shock troop at long range, sure you will lose that fight....nothing wrong here, yes?? well, it is the same with PZGreens, you should use them at their best range, not at close range.

I get your point but that only Applys if you are defending. If u assault you neee to approach a Cover which is mid range in the actual battle. If u stay long range you can get out damaged. And whine u charge for the mid range Cover you often lose a model (many factors with snipers indirect fire enemy squads )which leaves ur Medium range dps quite low when u finally arrived. But im a noob too so

No. Just no.


I honestly think that after reinforce cost cut (pgrens are now 38mp each to reinforce i believe) they are fine...

I like them as they are now, they are great defencive and flanking squad (flanking into cover, they are not shock units) that can win every long term engagement with any allied squad. Actually all squads in the game should be like this: very effective but requireing a lot of positioning to work well, that way it is super satisfactory to use them.

I have an idea though, that can make them even more interesting of a unit: lets replace their bundle nade with ability to put tellers on the field. It fits their tank hunter and ambush role well and also defines the upgreaded squad even better as a AT squad and pre upgrade squad better as AI squad.

I don´t see any problem with being able to toggle panzershrecks, if it had a delay and/or cooldown. I rarely train more than one pg squad anyway so it would surely make things a little easier.

They would behave much like regular sherman and isu152 and you could bait them into using shrecks with t70 and then switch to attacking them with shocks or the other way around.

Another option would be to allow them to toggle only in the base sector or near halftrack or something, which would require even more thought beforehand and would address the blobbing problem too.

PG with shrecks is the best LATE GAME INF. Close thread please no idea what this guy is saying.

Only thing I would like to see would be the bundle grenade being a tad bit better for PGs and their veterancy 2 being split between vet 1 and vet 2.

Only thing I would like to see would be the bundle grenade being a tad bit better for PGs and their veterancy 2 being split between vet 1 and vet 2.

I have been asking for this for quite a long time.

Just use Rangers instead.

It's your choice whether you want to upgrade or not. They are great anti-infantry if you don't upgrade. They are great anti-tank if you do upgrade. If they had both, it would be OP.

I always preferred when you could buy one schreck at a time for half the cost.

Mostly because who the fuck banks 140 munitions?

My really old video.
From 4 kills to 18 kills in one assault.
Sure, enemy could act better, but the same way, nade could do a way better...





@UP, you are right. They are not assault units.

(directed at you)
That was when they were better, just look at them, even raping units when not in cover. Now they are quite lackluster until the reach vet 2-3 and always seem to drop a model so quickly.

(not directed at you but thread in general)
But still, their double shreck upgrade makes them very potent and they still have their bundled grenade after the upgrade. It's not like Guards get any better with their DP upgrade and they are 'elite infantry' lol.

(directed at you)
That was when they were better, just look at them, even raping units when not in cover. Now they are quite lackluster until the reach vet 2-3 and always seem to drop a model so quickly.

(not directed at you but thread in general)
But still, their double shreck upgrade makes them very potent and they still have their bundled grenade after the upgrade. It's not like Guards get any better with their DP upgrade and they are 'elite infantry' lol.

what do you mean by "when they were better"?
I don't recall any nerf since april, when the video was made.

The biggest mistake you can make with PG´s is to close in to the enemy, since you can just park them in cover and watch them beat units from long range aswell

what do you mean by "when they were better"?
I don't recall any nerf since april, when the video was made.

I assumed the video was made before that, I remember them being godlike at launch and the months following launch. My bad!

See,its not about having an option or to "make you think".Its that the option per se is bad and weird,which is really the point.
Say if I do "choose"to make it an at inf.But isn't that too expansive for a inf at squad?Its 340mp and 120muni and 30-plus reinforcement cost!I mean its basically a retreatable weaker version of pak,and it costs that much?
There is a even deeper concern about this upgrade.That it is against one of the core design of the game which you shouldnt have anti-everything inf.See other elite inf unit like ober or commando or muricin paratrooper,they are all dedicated anti-inf infantry. of course there are also soviet guards,but that's just an instance of relic's changes of ideas on game design.Im saying that the roots of the situation we have here may actually be quite simple.The coh game design has really changed over the years.Back in coh1 its common for inf units to have anti-everything upgrades.Grenadiers got mg42 and shrek,storm troops got stg44 and shrek(they still have those now in the game btw),murican airbornes got hand held ATs too,and those rangers etc etc..I guess at first were fine about having anti-everything upgrade but weren't now.So PG could really be just a reflection of out-of-date game design the same as Soviet Guards.It has also been reflected on how they've done with the double shrek upgrade.I might well have made some mistake bout this at first.so according to ferwiner

Also it is important to say that in first versions of the game pgs could buy only one schreck if player wanted but then they became a anti-everything squads so relic changed it to single upgrade instead of 2 same upgrades.

its pretty clear that at first when the game launches they don't have this not-having-anti-everything-inf concern,but as time goes by,they do now.

I think their costs only seem expensive when compared to their other shrekked counterparts: volksgrenadiers.

For 235 manpower and albeit only one shrek for 90 munitions, those volks retain a great deal of their AI. Then they start acquiring vet (up to two extra levels!!11) and scale wonderfully and durably.

Panzergrenadiers are not the same kinds of unit, and I can see how people who are used to volksgrenadiers' AT package might get frustrated/confused. They are best used defensively, as they are flimsy, don't get sniper level accuracy with extra levels of vet, and drop their shreks on retreat like crazy. Even though it is only 120 munitions for two shreks, a four man squad having two shreks is a recipe for allied shrek usage.

They are best kept in cover to protect your flank and/or your paks from armored rushes.