Anyone Skipping Tier 1?

Hey guys.

Just curious if anyone skips tier 1 and works straight into tier 2?
I have been experimenting with this for awhile and it seems to have been doing really well in both 1v1 and above.
I build 3 engineers and 1-2 mgs to cover. I rush into flame half track and then get 2-3 pgs depending on whats going on. I work my way into a paks and eventually tech into stugs or w/e I need I need at the time.
While I lack in a early at support I find that I can cover more territory. I also find that with this patch the reinforcement cost isn't too high for pgs either.

by getting a commander with smoke can make a big difference in keeping my flame-track alive. Which is key! Also I have a bit extra manpower early which I can use for muni/fuel points or a healing bunker.

Usually if a player responds by building a light vehicle or w/e I am well on my way to having a pak or stug. Worst case scenario I have had to build a shrek on one of pgs.

Another fun trick I like to do with this is replace tier 1 with osttruppen.

Let me make it clear that I dont think is the best strategy but I find it decent and very fun especially in team games.

Anyone have any thoughts or comments?

Thanks.

-Jeeves.

It works if you're ok with not having fausts. T2 is super powerful, and ostruppen are finally good.

Pios aND mgs only put up a surprisingly solid early game

I've been trying it with AGrens as well:

http://www.coh2.org/guides/29278/mechanised-assault-guide#2138



It is amazing what having another unit in T0 does to possible starts <cough, USF, cough>

I've been trying it with AGrens as well:

http://www.coh2.org/guides/29278/mechanised-assault-guide#2138



It is amazing what having another unit in T0 does to possible starts <cough, USF, cough>

Great idea sir. Can't wait to try it. Maybe 1 agren to backup my pios early game?

With Osttruppen I will mostly of the time skip T1 since Osttruppen scale so damn well in late game and comes with the faust. So you still got your snare

I like rifle grenades and faust too much to ever do this. They got so much utility that Grens are my fav infantry. Even when they suck a bit lategame. But it is worth a try. The occasional MG bunker with pios could help against getting rushed too early.

Never tried but that sounds a nice battleplan. Ill give it a shot

I like rifle grenades and faust too much to ever do this. They got so much utility that Grens are my fav infantry. Even when they suck a bit lategame. But it is worth a try. The occasional MG bunker with pios could help against getting rushed too early.

I find that grens early game are very underwelming in terms of performance. Once u upgrade them with mgs they are fine but prior to that I find they are simply crap with current meta. Rifle grenades rarely do much of anything and really fauts is the only reason to keep them around. For me if I am spending resources and fuel to get out a mediocre unit I'll get pios and save for real units.
Not saying I never get them because they do have their place.

I use this strategy all the time when I fight against Soviets or USF in 1V1, but it does not work well when fighting against UKF. UKF's infantry has high accuracy which makes PG suffer great losses. 222 or flame-251 can hardly survive in front of UKF's sniper, AT...
The key of my strategy is to avoid fighting in the early-game. Cheap pioneer-spams use the width of the map to occupy as much points as they could. One MG42 controls the center house and VP, another one using as support. After 5 units of phrase 0, 2PG, 222 and 251 will running and chasing the single enemy unit. Then I will choose PUMA+Panther or Stug+P4 to deal with enemy's armors.

Mechanised Assault commander and Ostruppen are obvious commanders but I also think Mobile Defense can work if you can make it to 3CP and start fielding vetted Ostruppen infantry. Puma would be a nice mix to add to Pio/Ost/PG fighting front line force. May have to give it a try.

I'm using this in 2 vs 2s lately.
2 mg42s and 2 pios supporting each other early. As soon as fuel ready tech up.1 pio stays as LOS unit for mgs and plants mines or wire(since no grens u have great muni supplies).2nd pio builds t2 asap.One pio gets flamer after 1-2 mines planted.Secure 1 fuel with 2 mgs in mutual support and pios.

First unit out of t2 is 222 car.This is because enemy by now will get bren flamer or try for light vehicle/sniper to counter mgs.222 can also give you mobility to your largely static army and counter blob pushes on your mgs.
Next 2-3 panzergrenadiers.(can equip 1 pzgren squad with shrecks if vehicle threat high -but generally 3 AI pzgrens and spend that on mines)All the while keep planting mines everywhere .Finally 1 pak.

T3 - 2 Panzer 4(If team has fuel superiority to push enemy) or 2 stugs if fuel parity with opponents.Stug flanks covered by mines or pak.

Stall for tiger.Get another pak if necessary.


Things to note :Grenadiers from midgame are totally helpless against allied blobs,pzgrens only have durability to survive vet stuff once concentrated 3 squads(more easier after reinforce cost reduction).Panzergrenadiers generally to be used with mg42 until vet 2.After that can be used independently.
Panzergrens can bully vanilla tommies and conscripts from the start.Careful vs rifles and grenades.

Panzer 4 and stugs are liabilities vs british lategame.Against british lategame if not using tiger need panther or elefant(risky).

Elite troops doctrine is good vetting 1 mg42,panzgrens and t3 armor ,but lacks reuseable tiger.Lefh doctrine can be useful in certain maps,especially if temamate also using tiger doctrine.
Elefant doctrine may also be used on certain situations(map).

Spearhead doctrine is excellent choice with tiger,smoke,recon and mortar halftrack(negating inability to build early mortar).

Weakness ;Weakness of this tactic are siege maps with heavy indirect fire play from beginning and emplacement heavy allied play.

The thing about Vet 1 is that upgrade grenadiers are basically the end game for Ostheer because they are good at attacking once they get vet and mg's and can decrew pak guns. So even if I skip them, I always backtech to tier 1 for this reason.

In 1v1, if I skip tier 1, I always get ostruppen. I find pioneers to be a waste of money if you get more than 2 in the entire game and 1 the early game. They don't fight anything well even when garrisoned and scale badly into the late game. I don't like assault grenadiers simply because they are so expensive to reinforce and not that good at attacking. They don't fight well at long-range and if you are assaulting, losing 1 when advancing is already too expensive for my liking.

Ostruppen are great because they can fight at an advantage anytime they are garrisoned or in heavy cover. They can beat or at least go toe to toe with every other early infrantry squad in the game. If you get 3 right at the start you usually surprise the crap out of people because you will have way more of the map than they expect and because people don't understand how cheap it is to reinforce ostruppen. I will gladly trade models of ostruppen for models of any of their units always. People always end up rushing and losing lots of manpower to decrew machine guns or pak guns which i easily recrew with ostruppen and reinfroce cheaply.

By the mid to late game however, ostruppen lose some value because while they are great at holding ground, they suck at attacking especially when there is no cover availalbe to give them their bonuses. I end up using ostruppen to hold my flanks and to support my paks (to recrew them) while i flank and attack with grenadiers instead. Almost every ostheer end-game is basically a fight of your vehicles versus theirs while fighting to decrew their paks. Grenadiers with lmg's are simply great at this and scale best as offensive units into the late game.

5 Ostruppen + 2 Tellers + 2 MG's lets you skip T1 and T2, fast P4 FTW

With Osttruppen I will mostly of the time skip T1 since Osttruppen scale so damn well in late game and comes with the faust. So you still got your snare

Ostruppen have no faust until you build t1. It is a valid strategy to back tech after building some t2 units and get fausts that way.

True but pgrens with schreks do the trick without snares

Hey guys.
Just curious if anyone skips tier 1 and works straight into tier 2?

Yes. Most of the time. But it is situational.

Against Brits 1v1 and 2v2, almost invariably. The advantage of fielding 5 man AGs instantly vs Brits is just too advantageous not to, and you can field more infantry fast for early local numerical superiority. Supported by MGs, and reinforced with Mech PzGs in a timely fashion, I only tier back for Grens once I have already attained field/resource dominance and tactical superiority, and only if necessary.

Until Vet 2 or > generally Grens are just too p1ssweak now. IDK what they were like way back when, but I detest them in their current state. They are fragile, with no hitting power, ranged only, encumbered by a 4 man model that costs too much for what it is. And encumbered even further by requiring T1 be built to access them, a thus ensuring their numerical inferiority on top of their inherent ones previously stated, a huge opening disadvantage.

Against USF and SOV I prefer a Com which includes Osttruppen. 6 men, call in X2, frequently with MG34 and or Vet, they are necessary against USF and far better than Grens against SOV. The combo of PzG and 6 man Ostt is better than waiting upon slow entry of 4 man Grens and spent fuel on T1 delay for T2 PzG. Importantly, they tier better IMV.

Grens definitely need a buff. They are the singular hugely underperforming Ost unit right now, even more absurdly so because they are should arguably be A most important one as in a 'bread and butter' unit. Direly in need of a buff.

Fixing Grens would make for a more balanced game and thus fairer, more versatile gameplay. Right now versing USF inf spam in either 1v1 or worse double 2v2 combo with their BS PTW Premium inf commander is just beyond an unpleasant IMBA pointless bore.

Elite troops doctrine is good vetting

What could be a good doctrine in theory I find is now negated in 1v1 against an opponent of any quality because of the absurdly excessive resource requirements to bless with the 'troop training' vet-magic stick.

Even in 2v2 vs USF with their Prem Inf Com insta-vet entry for no fuel cost facilitated by Easy 8 access too, Ost will need every point of mp & fuel for sufficient armour just to defend against the predictable onslaught.

Elite Troops doc is just too resource intensive to be useful let alone advantageous now IME. Even its Vet Tiger entry won't virtually guarantee sufficient shock impact for Endsieg any more, assuming you even achieve its entry CP in 1v1 before USF Prem Inf Com vet inf and Easy 8's swamp you.

That's my experience. I used to include it in my Com pref, but finding it redundant for so long now I've eliminated it from pretty much every config since. There are simply more versatile implementable doctrines for Ost now IMV. YMMV.

Great info Werw0lf. It will be interesting to see if anything changes at all with today's patch.

I saw a good thread not long ago about how good assault grens were good against brits. Will be fun to try spamming agrens and working right into tier 2.

Great write up guys.

mechanized assualt Doc or ostruppen doc,assgrenaders+mg in early game works also bunker instead mg

Skipping T1 on 3v3s seems viable. I find it better if you plan to play more aggresively and mobile around early-mid game and if the only unit you build in T1 is the grenadier. T2 overall provides a better variety of units that transition reliably to late game (scout car an exception). I've tried a 1mg 3pio start, rush T2 followed by 2 pgs and an unupgraded HT for mobile reinforcement. 2 pios with flamer 1 with minesweeper, 1 pg with shrecks.
Proceed to AT gun or Tech 3 for AT purposes.
Pioflamer + vanilla PG flanking combo with MG support is extremely effective against most early-mid game infantry. Also handles garrisons more reliably than gren rifle grenades. With strong short range support you can end fights faster than gren mg start.
Retreat where necessary. HT returns to hq and transports MG and PG back to the field. Exchange retreating flamer with backup flamer already on field. Push again. Having a fast transport HT to bring back the 3 squad Anti infantry group gives you abit more freedom to retreat without losing too much by doing so. unupgraded HTs played safe are much more useful than bunker reinforcements as its mobile and allows for more aggresive pushes.
Remaining pios build mines, help with repairs or stall and add minor battlefield presence. Shreck PG with AT gun or Tank support to handle any early vehicle assaults.
Transition to late game with AT/AI tank support depending on situation. T3 units synergize well with more mobile aggressive field presence