Can we please give brits some viable artillery?

British advantage over other factions going royal artillery is almost continuous fire, you can call in so many strikes from different sources. Basically you can fire with 2 tommy sections for 45 muni each in rapid succession, then with Valentine or sniper, and you can fire off-map into fog of war.

If you control 2 munition points + half map you can fire almost non-stop.

I mean let be real if Relic makes the artillery stronger it would be OP as fuck. The only way it can be allowed to become stronger is if it will be forced to be on long enough cool-down.

That was true in alpha when barrages were much cheaper and cooldown much shorter, but now everything is more expensive and has global long cooldowns, so you might as well pick a commander with offmaps instead of buying sextons or using base howitzers that are still absolute crap even if they did fire 24/7; they are just so bad... They dont hit, they fire not enough shells, and they have pathetic impact if they do actually hit something.

If they made it stronger, perhaps there will be games itll actually be used...

I've found the most effective artillery is from a vet 1 sniper and after T3 is researched. Not only do you not pay munitions like you do upgrading a infantry section, you get both howitzer barrages.

The flare can be thrown further than infantry sections, and if you leave your sniper cloaked, throw it and immediately re-cloak, it's not such a risk. It gets even better if you go anvil.

Otherwise I don't find artillery for the Brits to be worth it.

I've found the most effective artillery is from a vet 1 sniper and after T3 is researched. Not only do you not pay munitions like you do upgrading a infantry section, you get both howitzer barrages.

The flare can be thrown further than infantry sections, and if you leave your sniper cloaked, throw it and immediately re-cloak, it's not such a risk. It gets even better if you go anvil.

Otherwise I don't find artillery for the Brits to be worth it.

+1

The updgraded Basearty can destroy a Flak-HQ of the OKW in two runs (with anvil ofc). Its only viable against stationary targets but really sucks against a cluster of troops because of its long firing time. The Commanderabilities also have a long time between activating it and the first shell/bomb droped on the bf and thats why I dont use it very often. Best option you got as a brit against fortified positions is probably an attack with at least two arty options (Base and offmap) to scare off some of the troops and a suicide Wasp or a croc to clear out buildings/positions. Works great in 1v1 imho.

wut? teller can destroy commandos glider?

yep... dunno if a single teller is enough (i know for a fact that i also had an ostwind shooting at the glider beforehand), but it landed, slided into the teller, exploded -> no commandos. Kappa

@cr4wler: what type of flawed logic is this? So you are basically saying "hurr, brits have good late game tanks, so they dont need good arty, this is a soviet thing"? Really? What is your magical counter to heavily defended positions? Churchill croc rush against the pak wall?

How many games did you play as british? Pls play some teamgames vs ISG spam or 3v3 with Ost new Panzerwerfer and come back to this thread and tell us how brits DONT need good artillery. Please tell me again how you can counter panzerwerfe with the mortar pit

The way you describe the 25 pdr as "Rather ineffective" is nowhere near how the unit performs in reality. its more like "Nowhere near effective", it does absolutely nothing.

Who cares if those guns are free if they do not do any job at all? They are useless for damaging defensive positions and also useless for area denial, mainly due to abysmal damage and huge scatter.

I would pay for 25pdr anyday, ressources and pop if you will, if it would even remotely mirror a useful arty unit, which it does not.

And dont tell me you have to leave it as it is because it is a base unit. Noone requested it to be a base unit, I would happiliy build it outside my base with RE for a cost, if it was useful.

every matchup plays out differently. us has to make due without snipers, ostheer has to make due without a t0/t1 vehicle or reliable early AT, us has to make due without super heavy tanks, okw has to specialise for AT or AI...

and brits have to make due without mobile indirect fire (for the most part).
brit base arty is not supposed to replace that. that arty is there to make the enemy move from whereever he is entrenched at the moment. it WON'T force the enemy to retreat outright, but it WILL force them to move.

Cause arty is the only weakness of brits...

just like every other faction has weaknesses. for brits its early game.

every matchup plays out differently. us has to make due without snipers, ostheer has to make due without a t0/t1 vehicle or reliable early AT, us has to make due without super heavy tanks, okw has to specialise for AT or AI...

and brits have to make due without mobile indirect fire (for the most part).
brit base arty is not supposed to replace that. that arty is there to make the enemy move from whereever he is entrenched at the moment. it WON'T force the enemy to retreat outright, but it WILL force them to move.



just like every other faction has weaknesses. for brits its early game.

aha, so brits are "supposed" not to have good mobile arty for the sake of it? flawless balance approach you have. Let us make world in conflict out of 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 mb, where you have to pick soviet if you want good arty as allies? You should be lead game designer at lelic dude.

Again please answer my question how to counter entrenched enemies in 2v2+ with a brit only team

Currently it's not good but it's not terrible either, if it was made more accurate and the sniper's flare had their range increased, I think it would become fine then.

Make the base howitzers rotate quicker, with more accuracy.

I had an Infantry Section throw a flare in the middle of a Pak-43 emplacement. Thanks to the bright red flare and the slow turning rate of the base howitzers, all the enemy's nearby units were able to get away. Once the artillery rained in, not one shell hit the Pak-43. Pretty ridiculous, I haven't used it since.

It would be nice if there was a way to decrease the scatter if the Infantry Section was closer to the spot where the flare is thrown. It wouldn't help in a lot of situations but at least it would be something.

aha, so brits are "supposed" not to have good mobile arty for the sake of it? flawless balance approach you have. Let us make world in conflict out of 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 mb, where you have to pick soviet if you want good arty as allies? You should be lead game designer at lelic dude.

Again please answer my question how to counter entrenched enemies in 2v2+ with a brit only team

brits don't have mobile mortars, usf and okw dont have snipers, ostheer doesnt have green cover or elite infantry (that is not behind a paywall). you can cry for "balance" all you want, but in the end, if mobile indirect fire like mortars are introduced to brits, something else has to go.

and you have multiple options to take out entreched enemies: air supremacy, croc (or churchills in general) commando drops, comet/firefly spam... you name it. all of the brits late game units are multiple times more (manpower) efficient than the units of the other factions. if the enemy tries to turtle early you've pretty much already won.

brits don't have mobile mortars, usf and okw dont have snipers, ostheer doesnt have green cover or elite infantry (that is not behind a paywall). you can cry for "balance" all you want, but in the end, if mobile indirect fire like mortars are introduced to brits, something else has to go.

and you have multiple options to take out entreched enemies: air supremacy, croc (or churchills in general) commando drops, comet/firefly spam... you name it. all of the brits late game units are multiple times more (manpower) efficient than the units of the other factions. if the enemy tries to turtle early you've pretty much already won.

why does has anything to go for a proper, reliable artillery unit? You dont even have to include new units, just make 25 pdr useful.

I dont get this logic of "USF doesnt have snipers, so brits dont need mobile mortar". Unlike USF brits are way better designed and allow for choices, whereas USF has a very binary gameplay. But still USF doesnt have issue in the artillery department, which brits have atm.

Just because it is like that now, doesnt mean this is the right design direction. USF still lacks a way to deal with MGs in T0 on small maps with garrisons. What you are implying is that this is fine because USF has a different strenght somewhere else, unrelated to the problem, e.g. vehicle crews.

Sorry but this is retarded game design approach. Every faction should have the tools to deal with any possible situation, without forcing you to deal with it in a single possible way. THis is why Wehr is great: you can deal with garrissons with a sniper or a mortar or flanking or teching to t2 flame HT. YOu have choices and this is great. Whereas as USF you have to research nades and flank - thats it.
And dont argument this shit with "assymetrical balance" - if one faction has ALL the tools to deal with something in different manners and you have a faction with only 1 counter to something, especially hidden behind a commander choice, which is super predictable - this isnt assymetrical balance, this is bullshit. Plain and simple.

Again: all what you said about how to counter an OKW defensive line is also possible as soviets. But you can also go the other way and just katyusha the shit out of it, and punish this strat very hard. Brits dont have this OPTION and this is my main gripe here.

Royal Artillery Support second ability is useless if you do not tech second building.

Still it fails.

Yesterday on 2v2 I tried to hit 3 Leigs, they where all under the circle. I didn't hit a single one or at least de crew one, killed 2 models.

Moreover I had defence upgrade (canister shot).

I've found the most effective artillery is from a vet 1 sniper and after T3 is researched. Not only do you not pay munitions like you do upgrading a infantry section, you get both howitzer barrages.

The flare can be thrown further than infantry sections, and if you leave your sniper cloaked, throw it and immediately re-cloak, it's not such a risk. It gets even better if you go anvil.

Otherwise I don't find artillery for the Brits to be worth it.

the flare throw range is 30, close enough for enemy small arms to hit him.

If there's an enemy position tough enough to require the use of artillery, the last thing I would do is risking a 360 mp unit on an artillery run.

why does has anything to go for a proper, reliable artillery unit? You dont even have to include new units, just make 25 pdr useful.

I dont get this logic of "USF doesnt have snipers, so brits dont need mobile mortar". Unlike USF brits are way better designed and allow for choices, whereas USF has a very binary gameplay. But still USF doesnt have issue in the artillery department, which brits have atm.

Just because it is like that now, doesnt mean this is the right design direction. USF still lacks a way to deal with MGs in T0 on small maps with garrisons. What you are implying is that this is fine because USF has a different strenght somewhere else, unrelated to the problem, e.g. vehicle crews.

Sorry but this is retarded game design approach. Every faction should have the tools to deal with any possible situation, without forcing you to deal with it in a single possible way. THis is why Wehr is great: you can deal with garrissons with a sniper or a mortar or flanking or teching to t2 flame HT. YOu have choices and this is great. Whereas as USF you have to research nades and flank - thats it.
And dont argument this shit with "assymetrical balance" - if one faction has ALL the tools to deal with something in different manners and you have a faction with only 1 counter to something, especially hidden behind a commander choice, which is super predictable - this isnt assymetrical balance, this is bullshit. Plain and simple.

Again: all what you said about how to counter an OKW defensive line is also possible as soviets. But you can also go the other way and just katyusha the shit out of it, and punish this strat very hard. Brits dont have this OPTION and this is my main gripe here.

first off: sniper isn't a "real" house clearing option since he misses at least 50% of the time. mortar works, but is somewhat unreliable in that you might get 2-3 models in one shot, or not kill any for like 5 shots straight. flamers work, but you suggest flame ht... t2 unit that costs 120 mun to upgrade, not even speaking about the mp and fuel costs. imho pio flames are the cheapest and most reliable way to clear houses. and i do think brits somewhat lack that, since they pretty much only have the wasp here.

apart from that... what does ostheer (non doctrinal stuff) have to deal with the croc for example? paks get oneshot by flames. Panthers are the only thing that even comes close to standing a chance, but in a 1v1 croc still usually wins because of higher HP. while i still believe that croc is too strong, i don't think it's because of the armor or the (still super high) hp, i think it's because the flames kill too quickly from too far away. paks are not a counter to the croc because of it... and they should be.

and again: if your enemy bunkers down in some part of the map, he's setting you up to win already, because you just cap everything else and try holding it till late game, where all your units are better.

or just give the brits mobile mortars... and ostheer gets commandos, usf gets kingtiger, okw can build all units out of all structures.... and so on.

as for brit commanders: some of them are pretty useless, which is in part due to the fact that the p2w commanders are so strong that they drown out the competition. once those p2w commanders have been brought into line (after relic brought in enough money with them), i think the other commanders will get buffs. until then you either buy those commanders and enjoy your free win if you make it to late game, or you're better off trying to play team games and hoping one of your mates is a brit with p2w commanders. (and i think THIS is were the design is fail: some commanders make the brits so retardedly strong that they're basically unbeatable late, while others make them so retardedly weak that they're almost auto-loss, not the lack of mobile mortar/viable artillery)

first off: sniper isn't a "real" house clearing option since he misses at least 50% of the time. mortar works, but is somewhat unreliable in that you might get 2-3 models in one shot, or not kill any for like 5 shots straight. flamers work, but you suggest flame ht... t2 unit that costs 120 mun to upgrade, not even speaking about the mp and fuel costs. imho pio flames are the cheapest and most reliable way to clear houses. and i do think brits somewhat lack that, since they pretty much only have the wasp here.

apart from that... what does ostheer (non doctrinal stuff) have to deal with the croc for example? paks get oneshot by flames. Panthers are the only thing that even comes close to standing a chance, but in a 1v1 croc still usually wins because of higher HP. while i still believe that croc is too strong, i don't think it's because of the armor or the (still super high) hp, i think it's because the flames kill too quickly from too far away. paks are not a counter to the croc because of it... and they should be.

and again: if your enemy bunkers down in some part of the map, he's setting you up to win already, because you just cap everything else and try holding it till late game, where all your units are better.

or just give the brits mobile mortars... and ostheer gets commandos, usf gets kingtiger, okw can build all units out of all structures.... and so on.

as for brit commanders: some of them are pretty useless, which is in part due to the fact that the p2w commanders are so strong that they drown out the competition. once those p2w commanders have been brought into line (after relic brought in enough money with them), i think the other commanders will get buffs. until then you either buy those commanders and enjoy your free win if you make it to late game, or you're better off trying to play team games and hoping one of your mates is a brit with p2w commanders. (and i think THIS is were the design is fail: some commanders make the brits so retardedly strong that they're basically unbeatable late, while others make them so retardedly weak that they're almost auto-loss, not the lack of mobile mortar/viable artillery)

Can someone who is longer in this community tell me if this guy is trolling?


are you really that deluded to argue against community consent that brits have issues with defensive enemies who use arty atm? Especially OKW ISG Spam?

Do you actually play the damn game? Or are you are an axis fanboy?

How does croc (a doctrine unit) has anything to do with brit lack of proper artillery? If you think it is fine due to "assymetrical balance", then this unit should be made a stock unit

Do you really believe it is good game design that I am forced to go for a croc commander as brit vs OKW ISG spammers? Wow...

All your solutions that you proposed are total bullshit.

Pls go play 2x brit vs 2x OKW on a map like kharkov with both going 2x ISG behind 3x shrek volks and schwerer HQ and try to counter this. You know what it is like atm? You are right, surviving till croc, thats the only way to go atm.

Hell even tutrtling OH with reinforce bunkers and mortars will pose you problems. Dont tell me its fine that a callin (be it commando - lol vs OKW, or Croc) is the only supposed counter vs those strats.

Hell even tutrtling OH with reinforce bunkers and mortars will pose you problems. Dont tell me its fine that a callin (be it commando - lol vs OKW, or Croc) is the only supposed counter vs those strats.

but its fine that you can't counter brit emplacements as ostheer without callins? or croc? sry dude, but the only one being fanboyish atm are you. "axis op, buff brits" is literally everything you say. i just want a balanced game, but since you seem to be biased, that obviously constitutes fanboyism. if you reread my posts, i actually do say that the base arty is underperforming. but also: if it ever gets good, it's pretty much automatically overpowered in its current form. and people just use it wrong for the main part (on top of it being comparatively weak): don't expect it to kill anything, don't expect the enemy to outright retreat just because you threw some red smoke at him. use it as a "area denial" tool, because that's all it is. enemy has to move or risk getting actually hit (the damage of the shells is actually pretty decent, it's just the initial delay and delay inbetween shells thats a bit too high).

retreat just because you threw some red smoke at him. use it as a "area denial" tool, because that's all it is. enemy has to move or risk getting actually hit (the damage of the shells is actually pretty decent, it's just the initial delay and delay inbetween shells thats a bit too high).

except it doesnt work as area denial tool anymore, now that axis figured out that it does 0 damage. Do you even play brits yourself or pull your arguments out of your ass?

"it does decent damage" LMAO

except it doesnt work as area denial tool anymore, now that axis figured out that it does 0 damage. Do you even play brits yourself or pull your arguments out of your ass?

"it does decent damage" LMAO

insult after insult, 0 substance to your claims.