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2 Solutions for JP4 Camo (serious thread, not trolling)

21 Sep 2015, 08:53 AM
#61
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653


i understand the problem you had during that game

now according to the forums the churchill has(tech one)

1600HP
270-280 Armor
its as slow or slower then a king tiger
has a gun like the kv-1s or/and a little better

its an anvill unit(so you dont get it if you choose hammer)

it costs 540Mp and 150Fuel

now i also have to say that the comet and the is-2/isu-152 have better armor then the churchill atm before i go on

now the churchill if it bounces 3 raketenwefer at shots is just RNG (it may even happen on comets and is-2s) so you cant base much balance to it

as for the pak43s hitting the churchill and Penetrating BUT not killing it but leaving it heavily damaged is not broken either,infact it would be a better choice to bring a jagdpanzer 4/panther to finish of the churchills instead of at guns


the same thing happens with the USF against panthers and tigers,they have too much armor,HP and they escape with "smoke" its the same thing with churchills

also i dont see them as god tanks in any way(still havent seen a churchill beat tigers/panthers/jagdpanzer 4s)

the only thing i would suggest is a price increase(more fuel to like 200) but then again i dont see how its possible to spam them without having support

still if an HP redution is needed then we should decrease the price of it or otherwise the comet will be the only viable option late game

i should also point out that during the alpha the churchill was the most overpriced shitty unit you could field(losing to 1 pak,panzer 4 or even stugs for the matter)cause it didnt took damage like it was supposed to and it was VERY SLOW and most people went for a comet so bear that in mind


Got the replay of it. It didn't really needed support because of the Vicker bug... No troops could go in and lost my Panther. At some point (last 5 minutes) he had a 17 pounder so couldn't go near it. Perhaps JPz4 would be a good choise.
21 Sep 2015, 11:40 AM
#62
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

I managed to kill 9 churchill Inc 2 crocs in 2v2 the other day with pak 40's tellers and a tiger against reasonable opponents with a shoddy AI team mate.

Still doesn't have anything to do with a cloaking tank destroyer that is better than all other equivalents
21 Sep 2015, 16:01 PM
#63
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

Just make JpzIV's camo same as old Hellcat: cloak => immobilize + sight increase, the whole idea of tank moving in camo is dumb, that's why sniper camo mechanic was changed, on the other hand, Zis can only dream of having the same nice camo bonus as JpzIV.
22 Sep 2015, 15:45 PM
#64
avatar of samich

Posts: 205

just remove camo and give it smoke. Stealth on tanks is borked, its a crap idea, it messes with the targeting mechanics and it looks like shit.
22 Sep 2015, 22:07 PM
#65
avatar of hannibalbarcajr

Posts: 503

We already know what would be a good solution from COH one. The Hetzer could only go in the camp if it was not in negative cover and once it fired it was revealed and could not be cloak for a certain cooldown time and as long as it did not fire again and once it fired it was revealed and could not be cloak for a certain cooldown time and as long as it did not fire again. Because you weren't going to fire just wants it was basically the first strike weapon but I believe had an accuracy and damage bonus on the first shot. The unit was fun to use and fun to play against, it seems somewhat historical since it allowed it to ambush enemies you did not do proper scouting and screening. Just do what was done with the Hetzer.
22 Sep 2015, 22:19 PM
#66
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

This thread gave me cancer when Alex came in...now its mehish. Inb4 Alex comes back.
22 Sep 2015, 22:25 PM
#67
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

This thread gave me cancer when Alex came in...now its mehish. Inb4 Alex comes back.


Theres nothing left to discuss. The only issue is being able to instantly toggle the camo on and off. But other than that the only issues are conditions such as button not actually marking the tank as remaining in combat.

It's got a cloak cooldown like snipers do, there is not actual way to make it conditional to cover because Relic would need to totally revamp the cover system to apply to vehicles. It would also make it hard to use because the JPIV's low profile means when it's behind cover it will blow that cover up when it tries to shoot.

aaa
22 Sep 2015, 22:30 PM
#68
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1487

unit costs 400/100 its very low price for what it does. Its nearly impossible to kill veted jp with any tanks in a close game.
22 Sep 2015, 22:36 PM
#69
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Sep 2015, 22:30 PMaaa
unit costs 400/100 its very low price for what it does. Its nearly impossible to kill veted jp with any tanks in a close game.


Now this is one of the things that kind of upsets me sometimes. People are not seeing my point and thats when I stop reading my own thread for a couple days. Do you even english bro? @aaa this is not towards you but towards most people in general.

P.S. its 135 fuel and with okw fuel penalty thats like 170 fuel.
aaa
22 Sep 2015, 22:39 PM
#70
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1487


this is not towards you but towards most people in general.


why did you quoted me then? Im sorry stuka costs 100 fuel not jp4. And those 2 often come together.

This unit is very hard to kill while it kills everything so fast. Its ussualy strugle to play vs jp4 even when I win sometimes.



aaa
22 Sep 2015, 23:22 PM
#71
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1487

I was going to ask how to counter jp4. I sometimes win but feel uncomfortable while this unit on the field.
last my game. He lost whole map in the opening but when jp arived he got advantage. I was close to losing the game. I won only cuz the oponent was even worse than me. Shocks with 70+ kills per squad.




23 Sep 2015, 01:21 AM
#72
avatar of Robbie_Rotten
Donator 11

Posts: 412

It needs a much longer out of combat requirement. It should be for ambushing not for escaping. (its even called ambush camo :luvDerp: )

So I'm all for solution 2.
24 Sep 2015, 06:40 AM
#73
avatar of slother

Posts: 145

It needs a much longer out of combat requirement. It should be for ambushing not for escaping. (its even called ambush camo :luvDerp: )

So I'm all for solution 2.


And let's increase penetration for first shot from camo, since there is cooldown u wont be spamming it.
24 Sep 2015, 07:44 AM
#74
avatar of CptEend
Patrion 14

Posts: 369


The answer is because it's a video game. The cloaking mechanic exists to give it something to use to escape from enemy armor because it represents a significant investment for the OKW player and it has terrible maneuverability.


I'm pretty sure it exists to allows ambushes, which is what you would expect from a turretless tank destroyer. Not to be an escape tool. If your turretless TD gets flanked by a tank it should be dead, that's the whole point.
24 Sep 2015, 09:43 AM
#75
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

Such lust for nerfs. Let's nerf the weakest faction even further so we will have dat 0.4 win rate. It's the most expensive stock tank destroyer it needs it's survivability because okw is designed around the fact that you need to keep your units alive since replacing them is much harder compared to the other factions.

You can always use attack ground to attack a cloaked jp4. When cloaked it moves much slower so in most cases it's just l2p.2 at guns counter this unit well and nobody prevents you to do that.
24 Sep 2015, 09:57 AM
#76
avatar of siuking666

Posts: 707

Australian magic you easily could've destroyed the jp4 with attack ground. Sometimes I think you are the only strategist on coh2.org that has l2p issues.

I generally wouldn't advise to nerf the weakest faction even further.


lol he's not the only strategiest with l2p issue. Try CreamNcookie
24 Sep 2015, 13:20 PM
#77
avatar of Robbie_Rotten
Donator 11

Posts: 412

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Sep 2015, 06:40 AMslother


And let's increase penetration for first shot from camo, since there is cooldown u wont be spamming it.


I'm fine with that. I would even be fine with moving its alpha strike from vet 4 (5?) to vet 2 if they made the out of combat requirement 20 seconds.
24 Sep 2015, 14:35 PM
#78
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

Damage should never be given as vet. The bonuses out of camo should be accuracy and penetration. It should be 100% chance to penetrate any armor by vet 5. I hate that at vet 5 a cloaked JPIV can one shot Priests or carve out a sizable chunk of IS2 health. What is the point of that?
25 Sep 2015, 06:08 AM
#79
avatar of Chernov

Posts: 70

Compare it to SU-85 then. I would have my SU-85 cost 500/250 to ever perform near this ****.
25 Sep 2015, 08:20 AM
#80
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1



I'm fine with that. I would even be fine with moving its alpha strike from vet 4 (5?) to vet 2 if they made the out of combat requirement 20 seconds.


This. Vet5 for Pen increase is just too much.

This would also help versus Brits.
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