LeIG is too effective

I never said the Pack Howi was OP, it's great, but not OP (like the ISG).

great at what????

have you ever used the Pack Howitzer???

i have used it alot and have never found it effective at anything so comparining it to the ISG is laughable(since the one wipes 4 man squads while the other does not)

so again let me ask again

HOW is the Pack howitzer effective or more effective then the ISG???

Have you ever used the unit???

I think there is a guide here on coh2.org in which the optimal usage for both the howie and the isg is explained. Basically, you shouldn't use them as indirect fire weapons because they both suck more or less at it. The pack howie sucks more, but the isg isn't a wonder weapon either. Yeah, it will land a couple of shots, but regular mortars are better.

The optimal usage for both is kinda like you should use an MG. Close to the frontline, but obviously not in the very first line. They should fire at like medium range with a direct line of sight so that they can fire directly instead of indirectly. That means a lower trajectory and a faster projectile travel time to target, which means that the target is likely still where it was when the round was fired, and then it hits, with devastating effect, especially in the case of the pack howie.

In short: Don't use the pack howie like a mortar. Use it like a backup MG. You will find it's a beast.

ISG is a sniper

Best sniper

Best sniper

4 men sniper squad confirmed. Kappa

Take that, soviets.

The problem with ISG is its barrage ability which recharges too fast between barrages. Increasing the barrage recharge time would be a good idea, in my opinion to make it more balanced. It's too effective against brits emplacements at the moment, other than that it's fine considering it's OKW's only option for indirect fire, and not being too expensive, plus the many weaknesses OKW has. (OKW needs a rework in my opinion)

barrage? last i checked (admittedly weeks ago) the barrage was shit. unless i missed something i haven't seen any changes to it either.

barrage? last i checked (admittedly weeks ago) the barrage was shit. unless i missed something i haven't seen any changes to it either.

try it in a real gam.e against brits emplacements, and the recharge is too quick doesn't give u to repair/heal

barrage? last i checked (admittedly weeks ago) the barrage was shit. unless i missed something i haven't seen any changes to it either.

Both the ISG auto fire and barrage got a massive buff to their scatter/accuracy with the release of UKF. They are insanely accurate right now.

+1 to increasing Barrage timer on ISG - that would eliminate a lot of the problem that Brit emplacement have against it and make it more balanced. Just bring it in line with other factions mortars or slightly less.

Comparing ISG and Pack Howie isn't that great at determining if ISG is overperforming IMO... yes they are similar units but are in different factions and used in different contexts.

USF - mobile army dependent on aggressive flanking, who can't set up static screening troops for Pack Howie to set up behind and auto fire endlessly as easy. Also more MP stressed due to Rifleman bleed making getting multiple Pack Howies harder. How often do you see a USF player with 2 Pack Howies?

OKW - Forward Trucks set up natural locations to plop ISGs at. OKW naturally tends to float MP and can more easily build 2-3 ISGs. ISG has longer auto-fire range which synergizes with OKW forward truck screening to fire at troops in a wider radius and not need to reposition.

You see how this can result in the ISG overperforming? Yes 1 vs. 1 Pack Howie can look the same or even better as a unit but the units don't exist in a vacuum. OKW can more easily screen ISGs and build more of them... when you throw in longer auto-fire range... yes the ISG can be too effective when combined with OKW as a whole.

That's because the Pack Howitzer is best used with a Price-style Rear Echelon horde. The cheaper REs, and their surprising durability once they hit vet 2 and 3, allow you to float enough manpower to get 2 Pack Howitzers, provide a meatshield that prevents the Pack Howis from being overrun, and give you a surplus of cheap squads that can recrew them if they do get knocked out.

The Pack Howitzers provide the extra edge in return to deal with an Axis counter-horde of LMG grenadiers or similar elite infantry, as well as MGs.

try it in a real gam.e against brits emplacements, and the recharge is too quick doesn't give u to repair/heal

i know it's effective, i've been on both ends of it, but i never bothered to use the barrage, just the autofire/attack ground. the cooldown has always been the same length as the barrage, it's just that the barrage used to suck.

Both the ISG auto fire and barrage got a massive buff to their scatter/accuracy with the release of UKF. They are insanely accurate right now.

ahh, see i didn't know the change also effected the barrage.

decrease the accuracy plz

Until yesterday I wasnt aware how painful and powerful double ISG strat is.

It just brutal.

First of all, shell's travel time. It's very, very short. When compare to mortar, shell is in the air half of that time.

Second thing, and most important is OKW MP float.
Leig in it's own is not super weapon. It's just OKW which can easily afford to get double leigs pretty fast.

Try to get two 120mm in first 15min or 2 mortar emplacement I mean, you can get them but your map presence will be devastating for you.

At 10-15min you can't even hide behind green cover because double leigs are already shooting at you without any big problems with map presence for OKW.

During my XXXX hours, I played with sniper maybe hmmm... 20 times and Im pure pudding playing with sniper strat, yet I tried to go for sniper with Guards and Penals support behind green cover and slowly moving forward.
Those legis completly shutted down cover play. With pretty nice rate of fire, short travel time, and MP float which allows to get 2 of them so fast, it's devastating.

But the problem lies not around leig but around OKW which is floating MP like hell. And when you have such a huge float, why not make dobule or even triple leig?

Speaking of 2v2

I think there is a guide here on coh2.org in which the optimal usage for both the howie and the isg is explained. Basically, you shouldn't use them as indirect fire weapons because they both suck more or less at it. The pack howie sucks more, but the isg isn't a wonder weapon either. Yeah, it will land a couple of shots, but regular mortars are better.

The optimal usage for both is kinda like you should use an MG. Close to the frontline, but obviously not in the very first line. They should fire at like medium range with a direct line of sight so that they can fire directly instead of indirectly. That means a lower trajectory and a faster projectile travel time to target, which means that the target is likely still where it was when the round was fired, and then it hits, with devastating effect, especially in the case of the pack howie.

In short: Don't use the pack howie like a mortar. Use it like a backup MG. You will find it's a beast.

Better than regular mortars I've never seen any mortar so accurate. Currently the Pack howie and the ISG are really accurate. The point where the ISG is better is mainly because of it's range (new patch 115 vs whatever range the packhowie has)

Until yesterday I wasnt aware how painful and powerful double ISG strat is.

It just brutal.

First of all, shell's travel time. It's very, very short. When compare to mortar, shell is in the air half of that time.

Second thing, and most important is OKW MP float.
Leig in it's own is not super weapon. It's just OKW which can easily afford to get double leigs pretty fast.

Try to get two 120mm in first 15min or 2 mortar emplacement I mean, you can get them but your map presence will be devastating for you.

At 10-15min you can't even hide behind green cover because double leigs are already shooting at you without any big problems with map presence for OKW.

During my XXXX hours, I played with sniper maybe hmmm... 20 times and Im pure pudding playing with sniper strat, yet I tried to go for sniper with Guards and Penals support behind green cover and slowly moving forward.
Those legis completly shutted down cover play. With pretty nice rate of fire, short travel time, and MP float which allows to get 2 of them so fast, it's devastating.

But the problem lies not around leig but around OKW which is floating MP like hell. And when you have such a huge float, why not make dobule or even triple leig?

Speaking of 2v2

If you watch to our 3v3 inhouse game 2 days ago where I went 2x LeIG is just completely wrecked the guys up, we weren't even rolling into the medium-heavy tanks.

I just think that the scatter should go up for a bit and that it'll be much better.

as long as something like the crocodile exists, People shouldnt talk about ISG

as long as something like the crocodile exists, People shouldnt talk about ISG

Crocodile is nerfed in the Sept 17th patch. The LeIG is buffed on the other hand with increased range.

Crocodile is nerfed in the Sept 17th patch. The LeIG is buffed on the other hand with increased range.

As it should be, Axis must be OP.

Don't you guys get it already??

Wow, super nerf in damage that still wipes infantry in a matter of milliseconds with super low hp on top of that, only 1400. Such nerf much wow.

Ultimately any nerf to the OKW would be somewhat of a huge blow to OKW's ability to deal with Brits/blobs in 2v2 and 1v1 due to OKW lacking any other real indirect/long range artillery. Reducing the LeIG's auto attack to Pack Howi range would work but honestly what else does OKW have to project indirect fire?

This is of course speaking about indirect fire in an abstract sense, because you can't really use the ISG behind shotblockers.

Increase scatter of the LeIG please. Not to where it was two months ago, but it is currently almost applying for the position of the OKW sniper with better range.

I am not so sure regarding arguments against British emplacements. If you choose to go static you are opening yourself up to indirect fire, it is your choice basically. You get nice bonuses in return, it's risk and reward. It's not even NECESSARY to go emplacements, it's just a nice bonus. Brits were made to be defensive, sure, but you can be defensive without a Sim City.

17pdr? 6pdr does the job and it's cheap. Bofors? No sympathy from me there for you, and plus, Vickers does a damn good job controlling infantry blobs. Mortar pit? Just use... aaaaaand I have located the problem.

Brits have zero mobile artillery options (outside certain commanders). This is in my opinion a glaring flaw in an otherwise superbly designed faction and it causes all these problems.

What's interesting is, the Land Mattress was spotted in the game files...

One possible solution to the ISG could be to reduce the shell travel time. After playing as USF, Brits, and OKW, I've come to the conclusion that the biggest reason for the ISG's seeming overperformance is the fact that its shell moves so quickly compared to that of a Pak Howizer.

You can always dodge a shell from a pak howitzer or any mortar by moving when you hear the "pop," but with the ISG, you don't have enough time to get out of the scatter radius (on direct fire of course).