Lets talk about Tommy Atkins

Only Riflemen are different, otherwise all core infantry have a -50% accuracy penalty on the move. Riflemen have -40%

If only they had a lightly armored apc which could deliver them to battle in relative safety and provide some basic fire support for a reasonable cost.

Only Riflemen are different, otherwise all core infantry have a -50% accuracy penalty on the move. Riflemen have -40%

Nope!

Tommies have a *0.25 accuracy and *1.5 cooldown multiplier while moving, nothing else in the game comes even close to being this bad on the move.

Tommies are really, really bad when moving. Tommies can't even hit Ostruppen in negative cover even if they are hugging each other while the Tommies are moving.

And Brens can't fire on the move so it isn't even something that you can fix.

The infantrymens role doctrinally is to take and hold ground. Is are admirable at the latter but rather poor at the former. If commandos were non doc t3 it might all make sense.

I don't know why you would want most core infantry firing on the move anyway unless it's to chase down almost dead squads or you're using Riflemen. Tommies being shit on the move is fine. It's just when they are in their forte, they still get rocked or win by a hair at best.

Don't know why Relic nerfed IS, hopefully it's reverted or UKF is still going to have insanely bad match ups.

Being able to fire on the move is a great boon. Especially if you are up against some arty-heavy factions. Consider the following cases:
1. Chasing down near-dead squads
2. Being able to flank snipers (same as #1). Currently your only chances of countersniping are snipers (so much fun... ) and the AEC (which is too good, and will probably get nerfed)
3. Being able to dodge riflenades/incediary nades, without that costing you the fight
4. Being able to flank an MG. Stay still = the MG repositions and you get suppressed. Move even slightly = you can't hit the MG
5. Being able to stay alive when there is 1 mortar/ISG in the field; stay still = you die. Move = you can't deal damage; you might still die to a stray shot
6. Being able to close in to throw a grenade (currently, closing in = suicide)

Currently, the way I see it is:
1. Tommies are the most boring unit to play with (just how exciting is it to play with a unit that REWARDS you for not issuing commands to it? Also, on the same faction that has emplacements?)
2. The vet3 bug needs to go. Really.
3. Whether Tommies are currently OP or UP is a secondary issue to #1 and #2.

Finally with the new commander I can flank with Tommy.

Are medics from the Logistics Glider actually worth it? I've never bothered with them but I'm curious now.

Yes, they are brilliant. Only 180 manpower if memory serves..

Just thinking about all the above it strikes me that there isn't really much wrong with Tommy ( barring Vet3 bug etc) that couldn't be fixed with easy access to smoke.

The British Army is obsessed with smoke. Always has been. 2inch mortars in WW2 were more of a squad level weapon than a platoon one. It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a pyrotechnics upgraded squad to be able to use one. Smoke grenades were commonplace though didn't output enough smoke, hence the light mortar was carried.

UCs would always have a 2in mortar - for smoke. Often a 3in mortar too if it was dicked to move or resupply one.

25pdrs unique calibre was partly picked for it's ability to saturate an area in.... smoke.

Denying a British faction smoke is akin to cutting off their sea lanes to readily available tea supplies, the latter would have brought a swift response from 12 Battleships, 3 Battlecruisers and about 50 assorted cruisers. Sod the hun, some bugger is after our PG Tips.

Gawd knows how many different smoke grenades we used to cart around afghan. WP, RP, different colours of bog standard smoke, 50mm patrol mortar ( mainly with smoke)... Think there might have been a 40mm smoke round too. Even the subject of how much oil to use on a Minimi was hotly contested, because it causes... smoke.

Overall I think Tommy offers a reasonable toolkit, with just one rather important bit missing.

smoke would be nice but wouldn't really solve IS getting outgunned by almost everything. Maybe if the pyrotechnics upgrade included a smoke that could be cool as right now it's useless as opposed to medic.

Personally I think saying they are outgunned is over egging it a tadge. They are good at range and on the defensive, which is fine as it fits with the faction design. This to my mind makes them decidedly meh rather than UP. I'm not convinced they are value for money and often don't bother reinforcing just to use the heal in base but it is my choice rather than something forced upon me, I just prefer the other units, in the early to mid game at least. They are quite powerful with 5 man squads and Brens but I can never find the resources to do this early enough to make building them a priority.

It also has to be said that assaulting with IS is possible and effective when combined with an airlanding officer, though it would be nice if you weren't stuck with one commander to unlock this.

I'm thinking more along the lines of IS being able to throw or fire smoke for RE to chase into. Ditto for 25pdrs to get infantry and Croms round the back.

Just a thought... What friendly fire damage does a 25pdr barrage do?

Yes, they are brilliant. Only 180 manpower if memory serves..

Just thinking about all the above it strikes me that there isn't really much wrong with Tommy ( barring Vet3 bug etc) that couldn't be fixed with easy access to smoke.

The British Army is obsessed with smoke. Always has been. 2inch mortars in WW2 were more of a squad level weapon than a platoon one. It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a pyrotechnics upgraded squad to be able to use one. Smoke grenades were commonplace though didn't output enough smoke, hence the light mortar was carried.

UCs would always have a 2in mortar - for smoke. Often a 3in mortar too if it was dicked to move or resupply one.

25pdrs unique calibre was partly picked for it's ability to saturate an area in.... smoke.

Denying a British faction smoke is akin to cutting off their sea lanes to readily available tea supplies, the latter would have brought a swift response from 12 Battleships, 3 Battlecruisers and about 50 assorted cruisers. Sod the hun, some bugger is after our PG Tips.

Gawd knows how many different smoke grenades we used to cart around afghan. WP, RP, different colours of bog standard smoke, 50mm patrol mortar ( mainly with smoke)... Think there might have been a 40mm smoke round too. Even the subject of how much oil to use on a Minimi was hotly contested, because it causes... smoke.

Overall I think Tommy offers a reasonable toolkit, with just one rather important bit missing.

Yes please, give smoke barrage for 25-pounder to make it finally useful. Brit can't flank for shit, they lack smoke and their on-map indirect is crap so UKF need something to dislodge MG/sniper.

Personally I think saying they are outgunned is over egging it a tadge. They are good at range and on the defensive, which is fine as it fits with the faction design.

Except this is the Axis infantry design too so you need to be in a good position to even stand a chance as they get debuffed when not in cover. Even Grenadiers can beat Riflemen if they're at range and Grens are arguably the least threatening (without LMGs) out of the early game Axis infantry.

I don't mind no smokes if UKF are able to nab territory and hold on to it but Tommies are piss poor at holding the line. In 1v1 the only emplacement that is viable i the Mortar pit. I only ever use the 17 pounder on narrow maps like Minsk Pocket where you can funnel tanks into one small area. However as long as UKF relies on the AEC crush, Bofors will never be picked as it's just a glorified OKW flak emplacement.

Just a thought... What friendly fire damage does a 25pdr barrage do?

Sod all, I will typically use the 25pdr's on a point then run in and cap it at the same time, It has never done more than a scratch (even to snipers).

Barrage is definitely useless as is. Medic upgrade isn't stellar, but works well enough.

PIAT is horrible and Bren is passable.

Tommy is very meh for the 280mp it costs.

So MrSotko released a video of DevM vs CaptainSPrice.



Spoilers: CaptainSPrice spams REs and gets an early Bolster + weapon racks and skips the AEC.

He actually wins and it was because he put Piats on his REs. In the end he had like 7 squads.

The fact that this works is kind of sad because REs are only slightly worse in Bren DPS than an IS with the same upgrades however they have way more utility as you can repair tanks insanely fast and you don't need to be in cover to take advantage of the Bren firepower.

Let's keep RE reserved for rear echelon. You got me confuzzled. Good points though.

Royal Engies cost what 210 MP, one less pop cap and are 2MP cheaper to reinforce.

Although keep in mind CaptainSPrice had really good unit preservation. But on paper it seems like a plausible strategy. Have yet to test it though. Until buffs for IS are confirmed, I think it's worth testing if using Royal Engies is worth it instead of using IS as the bulk of your infantry line.

You could probably take it a step further and try using the Heavy Engie upgrade in Anvil tactics (Then use a commander with the Croc Churchill). Slow sure but they'll probably be better at holding the line than IS. I can probably test it later but not today.

Oh no I agree with you about the royal Bren strat, but RE has conventionally meant rear echelon, so it's a bit confusing when you call Royal Engineers REs.

Just tested it out, didn't have much time but I tried a vet5 Obersoldaten with LMG at medium-long range while UKF had vet 3 bolster + 2 brens

Royal Engies w/ Heavy upgrade perform the best, going quite even and can even win against them if they have RNG on their side. IS will lose easier and regular Engies will pretty much never win unless they get some really good RNG or something.

Not completely in depth testing and Heavy Engies are a pretty big investment but I think it may be worth getting only heavy royal engies late game if you need to hold the line.

Also keep in mind these slugfests take forever to play out and in a real game you'll have many other factors. But in terms of firepower/durability, heavy engies seem to come out on top.