British Patch 3 Sep

What exactly is considered the "Regular mine" for USF? The m20 mines come to mind, and they arent really regular but very good at destroying/disabling vehicles.

That's a good point actually, would love for Jason to clear this up. I did assume M6 Mine but that's more of an extraordinary mine in comparison to even the Teller Mine.

More Balance updates to come with the Balance Preview early September.

Just had to read the patch notes again. So many annoying things gone... Please Relic, just release today

I'm assuming its the changes that were in the british alpha that weren't released?

That's a good point actually, would love for Jason to clear this up. I did assume M6 Mine but that's more of an extraordinary mine in comparison to even the Teller Mine.

Personally, I'm hoping that its a Soviet mine clone - cheaper and spammable > Immobilized vehicle for me. Especially since USF bleeds muni out the @$$ as it is already.

WHY?!

The Quad dies in 2 shots to any Axis AT. Isn't that enough?

Why is it so awful for Axis players that the Allies get good units? The M5 is perfectly fine as it is. How about you use the MANY options you have to kill it, and quit trying to give yourselves automatic wins by nerfing into oblivion anything and everything the Allies have that fulfill their intended purpose?

Yall killed the 120mm, Penals, Molotovs, the ML20, the ISU152, Katyushas... and that's just the Soviet units.

L
2
P

And quit whining

+ 1. I really hope these bloody whiners would shut up. Obers with LMGs were OP, the 152 was OP, but not the gardening Quad

+ 1. I really hope these bloody whiners would shut up. Obers with LMGs were OP, the 152 was OP, but not the gardening Quad

Move the Quad to T4 and trade for the Katyusha. Then it won't be OP. But as it is now, it's OP because of how early it shows up.

Its quite simple. Its a table that allows us to set specific accuracy/dmg/penetration/suppression multiplier towards either a specific unit or unit type. Its a much more flexible version of what we had in vCOH1.

Sometimes when attempting to balance a unit against some unit types, it breaks the balance with others. Its good practice to attempt to create balance without the use of target tables first but in the case where we NEED to create a specific dynamic between 2 units or unit types, it just make it a lot easier to accomplish.

Thanks my friend or the explanation.
Gotta say I love the way you keep things open. The community is much more enthuisiastic this way.
Not everything has to be perfect from the start and we love to help in the developing process.

Have you ever seen an M5 kill a Luchs? No, you haven't, because it can't pen that. A T70 on the other hand will, and yes I see T70s wipe squads within the first 4 shots all the time. ESPECIALLY if the T70 has gotten to vet 2, at that point it becomes a terror.

Again, just about all Axis AT will kill the M5 in 2 shots. You will have enough time to faust it, if your pak is supported well that will spell instant death for the M5. If the M5 flanks the pak, then 3 fausts will kill it, 2 will force it to retreat (heck even one probably will). It has no armor and takes damage from small arms. Hell, driving it through S mines can reduce it to half health.

Seriously, quit whining that it has offensive firepower. The Allies, Americans in particular, are hugely reliant on light vehicles to secure map advantage in order to delay superior Axis armor. Without great lights, winning as Allies becomes nigh impossible against an Axis player with half a brain.

Have you ever seen an M5 kill a Luchs? No, you haven't, because it can't pen that. A T70 on the other hand will, and yes I see T70s wipe squads within the first 4 shots all the time. ESPECIALLY if the T70 has gotten to vet 2, at that point it becomes a terror.

Again, just about all Axis AT will kill the M5 in 2 shots. You will have enough time to faust it, if your pak is supported well that will spell instant death for the M5. If the M5 flanks the pak, then 3 fausts will kill it, 2 will force it to retreat (heck even one probably will). It has no armor and takes damage from small arms. Hell, driving it through S mines can reduce it to half health.

Seriously, quit whining that it has offensive firepower. The Allies, Americans in particular, are hugely reliant on light vehicles to secure map advantage in order to delay superior Axis armor. Without great lights, winning as Allies becomes nigh impossible against an Axis player with half a brain.

When even Allied top players admit M5 is overperforming, you've start to gotta think something is wrong about it.
Or... Why don't you try to play axis to see how does it feel like to face M5?

Move the Quad to T4 and trade for the Katyusha. Then it won't be OP. But as it is now, it's OP because of how early it shows up.

Oh dear God no. Please no.


That would really put a dent in any Wehrmacht force. You see, if I, as a 1v1 Wehr player have 1 fuel, 1 vp, a muni point, and a few strategic points, that's great. Ten minutes in the game, I'm doing decent. Weathering the soviet assault.

I got MGs, a Pak, 3-4 grens, maybe a 251 or a 222, then, all of a sudden at the 12 minute mark, I hear the sound of a Katyusha.

I'm done, man. I've been holding my ground like any good Wehr player in the early game, but that Katy just wrecks all.


If the Pwerfer was still available in Ostheer T3, I'd be all for moving the Katy to T3 as well. But it's not. So any T2 heavy Soviet player has to be either out-microed, mortared to death, or burned with a mortar HT.


This isn't all the time, trust me. But hell, it can be quite frustrating.




Anyway, as a general note, this patch seems good. We must kiss away our M3s with flamer engies or penals, say good bye to our beloved Barton Car (M5 with double flamer) and be content with the M5/T70.

I'm excited for OCF. A good 1v1 tourney is what we need right now.

Have you ever seen an M5 kill a Luchs?

YES ask helping hans. He killed a luchs with an M5...live on twitch

i just hope the brits are on par against the axis cuz currently axis are mopping the floor against the allies or was it curb stomping them to death?

I dont understand why everyone is saying RIP M3 and M5.


Makes no sense considering that everyone says flamers do more reliable damage now, sooo yeah, why?



The 50% accuracy nerf on the move means jackshit since flamers have an accuracy value of 11. With a 50% nerf they still have 5.5 accuracy, meaning 550% accuracy againts infantry. So they still cant miss...

I dont understand why everyone is saying RIP M3 and M5.


Makes no sense considering that everyone says flamers do more reliable damage now, sooo yeah, why?



The 50% accuracy nerf on the move means jackshit since flamers have an accuracy value of 11. With a 50% nerf they still have 5.5 accuracy, meaning 550% accuracy againts infantry. So they still cant miss...

Well, people have never used the M3 to just drop squads off on the map due to size, though it is a nifty mobile capper getting those engies everywhere to plant mines and other nasty things. Also nice for getting LOS as it gets 50 sight like all other scout cars.

May be due to the fact T1 doesn't scale as well as T2, but we'll have to see. For all we know Penals are all carrying pre-patch 40 damage against infantry PTRS rifles

So we can safely gives the Riegel Mine unlock to Grenadiers, ja?

Sure, we just do the same and replace their previous doctrinal mine with it.

Oh wait! That argument of yours!

Show Spoiler

I'm really curious what they mean by "regular" mines. The M6 mine, or something new? If anything, I feel like Rear Echelon troops desperately need mines by default, not just in infantry company (just another reason to pick infantry company 90% of the time).

Also, LOL @ the ML-20 nerf. I really hope they revert some of the damage loss. 160 damage is terrible. Now it's like the discrepancy between the Soviet and German mortars: German stuff is superior for being German, even if the Soviet equivalent uses a bigger shell. Just give Soviet stuff less accuracy, rate of fire, whatever, and keep the damage the same. Makes sense.

But the update looks pretty solid otherwise. Although I only have a vague idea of how targeting tables work, I'm happy to see them fully implemented. Plus, squad spacing is a gift from the heavens. Not sure about the flamethrower change, but I'll wait to use it before I make a judgment.

Howitzers can no longer be built in Command H.Q Territory

Strange, I thought people asked to build them only at hq territory to not allow shooting straight to enemy's base...

Fixing comp-stomp-only maps, wow.

Fixed a bug where using an ability while Prioritize vehicle is active cancelled prioritize vehicle.

At last, gardening yes! Why it took so long? No cruzz's-more-you-know thread?

Fixed an issue when if you recrewed an West German Ostwind it would turn into an East German Ostwind

Is it buff or nerf? I mean what's the difference?

Small balance changes, good bug fixes. Wonder what happens to 'kubel as starting squad' rumors.

It's OP because of how early it shows up.

This.
Just needs to be delayed a bit.

If something becomes a no brainer it's a clear indicator that it's overpowered.
The M5 is such case. It outclasses vehicles that are much more expensive and comes too early.
The Quad MG upgrade comes simply too early, Relic wanted to increase light vehicle play, all they did in the end was just to expand the window to early game instead of late game. Infantry play finishes at minute 5 or 6 where you have to counter already the vehicles.

Ostheer struggles to have a pak by the time a Quad arrives and OKW needs always double raketenwerfer to counter the Quad, that's not fun play, just boring and repetitive. The aim should be to enrich the meta and not make no brainer options or foo strategies.

Its quite simple. Its a table that allows us to set specific accuracy/dmg/penetration/suppression multiplier towards either a specific unit or unit type. Its a much more flexible version of what we had in vCOH1.

Sometimes when attempting to balance a unit against some unit types, it breaks the balance with others. Its good practice to attempt to create balance without the use of target tables first but in the case where we NEED to create a specific dynamic between 2 units or unit types, it just make it a lot easier to accomplish.

There is no one who can question the ridiculous OPness of soviet t3, specially the M5 ,at the moment.

This has become a serious cause of frustration in the game.

I hope that also get fixed. Other than that, great changes, keep up the good work.

Also, LOL @ the ML-20 nerf. I really hope they revert some of the damage loss. 160 damage is terrible. Now it's like the discrepancy between the Soviet and German mortars: German stuff is superior for being German, even if the Soviet equivalent uses a bigger shell. Just give Soviet stuff less accuracy, rate of fire, whatever, and keep the damage the same. Makes sense.

Actually ML-20 and LeFH have identical RoF. I read in another thread that ML-20 starts showing its cooldown after barrage but the countdown starts at same time as barrage; like with LeFH. Its a UI thing. So now ML-20 is slightly inferior at vet0; and same at vet1. If I'm wrong please PM me and I'll edit this post.

Both howis cost the same btw. So they ought to have similar performance.

Mind you, you're correct that LeFH is now the superior gun; but its only till ML-20 reaches vet1; then both are same. Maybe increase ML-20 damage to 180 at vet0?

And ofcourse ML-20 needs damage increased to 200 at vet3; just like LeFH