Jagdtiger on Rails and Metal

So in the current meta I go for a large T3 - M5 into 3 SU-76s and build AT guns/shocks with spare manpower till IS-2; which usually comes around just in time for 230 fuel.
Found a real problem recently against a sudden Jagdtiger on the open north side with this. There were no tells he'd gone [Breakthrough?] commander till then, no panzerfusiliers. I should have pushed harder or gone to support my ally before it came out but just sat on the VPs and assaulted their munitions. As my IS-2 rolled up the Jagd appeared and it got taken out along with most of my T3 (Panzer IVs were already in play).
In the past a big T34 flank with infantry assault would sort it, but I was out of fuel. Because of my sudden weakness the Ostheer armour bruising my ally drove over and crushed the middle. I wanted to fight it out but my ally had already been battered the whole game and was insistent we conceded; things did look forlorn.

Anyway, sorry for the long story. I was essentially wondering how to counter a Jagdtiger in that situation (T3 heavy --> IS-2), or whether a build order change is required from early game. I had the AT guns ready for a KT and heavier armour.

Again there were a variety of sub optimal tactical decisions, but the appearance of the Jagd is what tipped the balance into Axis favour.

The best thing you can do in that situation is flank with is2 and make forward push with su76,at guns and your infantry also drop incendiary artillery on enemy infantry/at guns near the jagdtiger.

sorry, but your problem is that your opponent is smarter and didnot choosed doctrine in the first minutes like lots of noobs does.

It should be common, like in coh1 that you only choose doctrine when you know your enemys, so he saw he needs a Jagd against you, and you got rekt. Nothing wrong with it.

So in the current meta I go for a large T3 - M5 into 3 SU-76s and build AT guns/shocks with spare manpower till IS-2; which usually comes around just in time for 230 fuel.
Found a real problem recently against a sudden Jagdtiger on the open north side with this. There were no tells he'd gone [Breakthrough?] commander till then, no panzerfusiliers. I should have pushed harder or gone to support my ally before it came out but just sat on the VPs and assaulted their munitions. As my IS-2 rolled up the Jagd appeared and it got taken out along with most of my T3 (Panzer IVs were already in play).
In the past a big T34 flank with infantry assault would sort it, but I was out of fuel. Because of my sudden weakness the Ostheer armour bruising my ally drove over and crushed the middle. I wanted to fight it out but my ally had already been battered the whole game and was insistent we conceded; things did look forlorn.

Anyway, sorry for the long story. I was essentially wondering how to counter a Jagdtiger in that situation (T3 heavy --> IS-2), or whether a build order change is required from early game. I had the AT guns ready for a KT and heavier armour.

Again there were a variety of sub optimal tactical decisions, but the appearance of the Jagd is what tipped the balance into Axis favour.

Essentially the best option would be to stay away from SU-85's, just use buildings as shot blockers or get plenty of at guns and render the Jagdtiger useless.

He will leave it alone at some point which is when you exploit it and circle straf it

Essentially the best option would be to stay away from SU-85's, just use buildings as shot blockers or get plenty of at guns and render the Jagdtiger useless.

He will leave it alone at some point which is when you exploit it and circle straf it

On Rails there is nothing around the north fuel to shot block. There is nothing to circle strafe with from T3 and the IS-2 is very slow.

lead with infantry clear out any infantry or atleast engage it and then just drive behind with medium armor and kill it and also isu-152 will win 1 on 1 with jadgtiger it just keeps dazing it and arty will also help beacuse jadg is slow as hell

sorry, but your problem is that your opponent is smarter and didnot choosed doctrine in the first minutes like lots of noobs does.

It should be common, like in coh1 that you only choose doctrine when you know your enemys, so he saw he needs a Jagd against you, and you got rekt. Nothing wrong with it.

It's a fair comment, but a lot more applicable to Axis players rather than the Soviets who often rely on elite infantry from these doctrines.

I played hundreds of hours in VCoH and it was a more common thing to do then, but let's be honest most of the time you'd pick Infantry as American and Commandos as Brits; Terror as Wehr and ? as PE, almost certain in 1v1 if you look at the tournament replays, it was not common to deviate from that.
Same in CoH2 with Shock Rifle being common for IS-2, along with a few other common commanders. How often do you see Partisans for example?

What doctrine would you suggest I plan to when I see a JagdT? Forgoing elite troops until I see Panzer Fusiliers, which were not present this game. Should I be stocking my fuel in preparation for a heavy tank or spending it freely with no doctrine picked as I don't know which commander he has gone. Your advice is completely useless in countering JagdT; if you watch most casted games they pick their doctrines very early on. The Germans have more flexibility in this generally.

lead with infantry clear out any infantry or atleast engage it and then just drive behind with medium armor and kill it and also isu-152 will win 1 on 1 with jadgtiger it just keeps dazing it and arty will also help beacuse jadg is slow as hell

SU-76s will do or need T34s for turret rotation? I didn't have T4 up, so is it necessary to prep that instead of saving for IS-2 (which in my experience comes out perfectly after T3, M5 and 3 SU-76)?

Also didn't know ISU won 1v1 vs JadgT thanks.

The best thing you can do in that situation is flank with is2 and make forward push with su76,at guns and your infantry also drop incendiary artillery on enemy infantry/at guns near the jagdtiger.

Thanks yeah, unfortunately lost the IS-2 carelessly to the appearance of the JadgT but will bear that in mind.

SU-76s will do or need T34s for turret rotation? I didn't have T4 up, so is it necessary to prep that instead of saving for IS-2 (which in my experience comes out perfectly after T3, M5 and 3 SU-76)?

Also didn't know ISU won 1v1 vs JadgT thanks.

1v1 jadg vs isu is very situational though...mostly rng....and your opponent shouldn't have had jadgtiger early you surely messed up early game because you should have crushed your opponent with light and medium vehicles,and if your oppnonet gets a jadtiger which is very rare on its won to get you have to work for it hard,it isn't a pushover tank,it will do good what at what it does best killing tanks,also if your opponent only have jadg u just dont get tanks..infy will win the game jadg cannot do anything agasint infy...jadg is one of the weakest imo now i think about it (for it's price)anyways the problem i think is the map but there are strategys

So from what I understand, in the situation I had put myself in the only option was to go for an infantry force with AT guns.
If I had preserved the IS-2 push quickly forward to destroy the Jagd.

Thanks for the input guys.

On Rails there is nothing around the north fuel to shot block. There is nothing to circle strafe with from T3 and the IS-2 is very slow.

My experiences with Rails and Metals have 95% of the time never been positive, I veto it on the off occasion I play 2's

i would try to bring more infantry, or try artilerry or isu, but you are right: axis has more chance if he doesnot choose doctrine early.

Jonky, it's a team game for a reason. What army was your ally? Soviet or America, what commander did he go?

If you let us know these factors I can help you out more.

Mark target is a must in these games if your ally was Soviet. He is was USA, p-47s is what you need or even easy eight flank.

Your allies choice needs to support your team. You need to talk and communicate with each other.

Almost NEVER instantly pick a commander unless you have a direct tactic you work with.

Let us know more details.

I try to make sure im going something with Guards when i see my enemy is getting a jagd for Button ect.

To be fair tho its probably a good idea for you to always have a doctrine on your loadout that has Marked Vehicle and use it whenever vs OKW. (They cannot recover easily from losing vehicles, and this ability basically counters them fairly hard).

As you said you didnt see any panzerfusilers and that is unusual someone wouldn't use them (since they're really useful for OKW).

Ideally you need to push them early game into picking a commander. If he didn't need one until 13 Cp then you probably wern't pressuring him hard enough.

Jonky, it's a team game for a reason. What army was your ally? Soviet or America, what commander did he go?

If you let us know these factors I can help you out more.

Mark target is a must in these games if your ally was Soviet. He is was USA, p-47s is what you need or even easy eight flank.

Your allies choice needs to support your team. You need to talk and communicate with each other.

Almost NEVER instantly pick a commander unless you have a direct tactic you work with.

Let us know more details.

So the problem is my ally almost always insists on going for B4 (Counterattack) but builds it late, which pigeonholes me further into heavy tank builds. He only plays SU as he prefers being comfortable in what he's doing. To be fair he is trying Shock Rifle more now, but not in this particular game.

In general my commander choice is Guards Mech (ISU), Shock Rifle (IS-2) and Guards Motor/Armoured Assault as I feel it gives good tactical variability along with late game tank potential.

It's true in this game I did not give him ample support on his side at all, I'd taken all of my side and was fighting over their munitions, but he was getting bludgeoned by Ostheer medium armour. I could have been far more aggressive against the OKW headquarters or gone to help him. I was just wondering if I could have done anything against the JagdTiger at that point in the game; after those mistakes had been made, or if it had been built into something unwinnable.

In this game I went for shock rifle between the 3 and 5 CP mark for AT gun camo on the open fields and the shock smoke as I had no mortars, along with incendiary barrage on the OKW medic truck and the late game IS-2 with multiple SU-76 support.

I try to make sure im going something with Guards when i see my enemy is getting a jagd for Button ect.

To be fair tho its probably a good idea for you to always have a doctrine on your loadout that has Marked Vehicle and use it whenever vs OKW. (They cannot recover easily from losing vehicles, and this ability basically counters them fairly hard).

As you said you didnt see any panzerfusilers and that is unusual someone wouldn't use them (since they're really useful for OKW).

Ideally you need to push them early game into picking a commander. If he didn't need one until 13 Cp then you probably wern't pressuring him hard enough.

Yeah, on the replay I definitely should have pushed harder as I could have wiped him and his buildings. I was too passive on the VP and munitions. The problem was it may have left me overextended if the Ostheer player turned round and collapsed on me, so I maybe should have just gone to support my ally heavily for a while.

All fixed-gun tank destroyers are inherently more useful on long thin maps, because the opportunities for flanking are more limited. For this reason, possibly going IS-2 isn't that good an idea, because your opponent has the perfect counter in their back pocket. If it hadn't been the jagdtiger, it could well have been a couple of jagdpanzers. Similarly, Elephants and PAK-43's are popular on this sort of map.

This doesn't mean that it's automatically a bad idea; you could use your IS-2 as bait to draw the jagd-X out. But you would have to have that in mind in advance, rather than just trying to bull through on the units HP alone.

If you can kill the infantry screening it, you' re good to go. When I use Jagdtiger, I am afraid beyond believe that if I retreat my infantry, it will get swarmed.

3 t34-76s on a flank are enough to kill it, just park one behind it and 2 on the sides, you can block it to death.

In your situation, I would have gotten a Katyusha and tried to dislodge his infantry. As soon as the infantry retreats, rush in every conscript you have, followed by your zis guns, with your is 2 in the flank and an su76 in the back. Get a couple of hits of, at nade it. Once it has an engine crit, it is as good as dead.

If you are in a low fuel situation, just hold on till you can get indirect fire that can dislodge his infantry. A Jagdtiger without infantry support is a dead Jagdtiger. Also, on Rails and Metal, just go maxim spam into at wall into mortars and some conscripts. Then choose a doctrine based on what you face.