Double Soviet Sniper

Hey guys!

Playing a lot of 2s as axis lately and having some trouble with double soviet sniper openings.

How do you deal with them? Would love to hear some of your thoughts on that.

Cheers.

Do you mean one player having two snipers or both players going sniper first? I will assume it is just one player, but if both players rush a sniper, then they both went t1 and you won't be fighting maxims, mortars, or ATGs for a while. There will just be conscripts, engies, snipers, scout cars, and penals. So: make grenadiers.

If there's an OKW player, get a kubel. Early snipers rarely have much support and kubels are actually pretty good at getting kills. Soviet snipers only have 48 health so they drop really quick. Plus you can chase.

If you are both Ostheer players, you're going to be out of luck for a strong counter. Your best bet is to either play extremely aggressive with your grens and just try to close the distance to get a few shots off. Killing one of the team members at least sets back their manpower more than reducing a squad of conscripts down to 1.

Otherwise you can try to play defensively and lay some AI mines at choke points/shrubs. (You can cancel after one of the four areas has been built to save munis/time.) But I don't find this to be that successful against strong players.

The main thing you want to do is try and capitalize on the intense time and manpower the soviets have invested in t1 units. Since the Soviet Snipers don't recloak quickly and have to stick two entities in cover to achieve it, it can be rather easy to ambush them. Plus they have a REALLY long aim time so after their first volley you have some time to advance and try and push them off.

But if both players are working in tandem, then you have to coordinate a flank with your teammate and still try to capitalize on the lack of manpower the sniper's ally will have versus the combined army of you and yours.

If they are maxim spamming into buildings while double snipers run around, I don't have much advice for you. All my attempts to handle them never are effective enough and cripple me before the impending Quads. In which case if you can make it to 3 CPs, the ostruppen from Mobile Defense (Puma Doc) are actually pretty good roundabout counters to snipers. They're just too weak and numerous to make snipers effective.

If you are OKW, either "blob" your 3/4 Volks/SP/Kubel against them or go for Panzerfussiliers.

Never send only 1 unit to chase them. EVER. Get equal or higher amount of mp to engage them.

Please tell us when you see double snipers. From the get go or it's a slower transition into double snipers?
If he just goes CE > T1 > Conscript > 2 snipers he won't have anything to screen for them nor capping power.

Its basically all about timing. If okw, you need to relentlessly and carefully push your squads up to keep the soviet sniper repositioning, while also making sure he can't screen correctly. Then try your hardest to get a quick luchs out. He will probably have guards but it will take a lot of pressure off you if you get it out before the 10 minute mark.

As for ost, get at most 1 mg and like 4 grens into a quick scout car, or halftrack if you feel like. Mortars depending on the map.

use the map, try to take advantage of shot blockers to avoid snipers, and try to execute flanks with high damage units to try to kill them. soviet snipers no longer have sprint so a good flank will almost always force them to retreat. you can also use a luchs or panzer4 to kill snipers pretty easily as well.

The "snipe" mechanic (instant kills on all models with less than 80% health) on JLI G43's works regardless of the unit it's shooting at. Meaning if you spawn behind the enemies lines and shoot at a low health sniper you can instantly kill it if your lucky. Vetted JLI can also cloak meaning you can set up an ambush since they got hold fire this past patch.

if it is early game i say push with 2 units and 1 unit try to flank force sniper in retreat. just make it spend less time in the field.

OKW as lemon said rush luch to chase it
OST if you or your teammate is Mechanised Assault commander, Mechanised Assault group is perfect counter and chaser to SU snipers

or you think RNG God is with you use mortars and Field guns

It appalls me how nobody has mentioned the 251 flamer yet.

Seriously, the best counter to a T1 opening for OH is the 251 with the flamer upgrade. It also works awesome against maxim spam, conscripts, and really anything that doesn't have an AT gun looking at it.

I've had so many games where my SU enemy built like three or four maxims, or nothing but penals and snipers and clown cars, and then they ragequit when I literally burn their entire army to death, chasing them down with the raging infernos, and when they come back with an AT gun or armor I suddenly have four Maxims, and they're all backed up by Paks.

251 kicks ass.

It appalls me how nobody has mentioned the 251 flamer yet.

Seriously, the best counter to a T1 opening for OH is the 251 with the flamer upgrade. It also works awesome against maxim spam, conscripts, and really anything that doesn't have an AT gun looking at it.

I've had so many games where my SU enemy built like three or four maxims, or nothing but penals and snipers and clown cars, and then they ragequit when I literally burn their entire army to death, chasing them down with the raging infernos, and when they come back with an AT gun or armor I suddenly have four Maxims, and they're all backed up by Paks.

251 kicks ass.

It may have to do with its price, frailness, and range, especially compared to its counterparts and how soon its counter (Stuarts, Captain, any Soviet T3 unit) arrive which might be better spent on LMGs or Tellers.

It appalls me how nobody has mentioned the 251 flamer yet.

Seriously, the best counter to a T1 opening for OH is the 251 with the flamer upgrade. It also works awesome against maxim spam, conscripts, and really anything that doesn't have an AT gun looking at it.

I've had so many games where my SU enemy built like three or four maxims, or nothing but penals and snipers and clown cars, and then they ragequit when I literally burn their entire army to death, chasing them down with the raging infernos, and when they come back with an AT gun or armor I suddenly have four Maxims, and they're all backed up by Paks.

251 kicks ass.

it cost too much and very risky for 251 go front line most time, since it have paper thin armor your lucky that maxim guy didn't bring out AT gun, i use to make maxim ratio to AT gun at 2:1

It may have to do with its price, frailness, and range, especially compared to its counterparts and how soon its counter (Stuarts, Captain, any Soviet T3 unit) arrive which might be better spent on LMGs or Tellers.

It's hardly pricey, especially considering that you're pretty much guaranteed to get a 251 anyways. Slap a munitions cache down early and you'll be able to afford almost anything you want. I tend to build a muni cache as soon as possible, and the first muni purchase I make is a 251 flamer, followed by shrecks if I expect armor and don't want to get a pak, and then minefields and bunkers. Honestly I don't even get LMGs unless I'm already winning and can't think of anything else to spend muni on.

Allied light armor can be beaten without Axis armor, despite what many people will tell you. If you can fend them off just with your infantry, then your 251 is free to crit like crazy and make no building safe.

It is admitedly fragile, especially since small arms are guaranteed to destroy main guns at 25% health, which can be frustrating since two AT grenades and a few rifle hits will render it helpless. However, it has more range than an AT grenade, and at the time it comes that's usually all the range it needs.

it cost too much and very risky for 251 go front line most time, since it have paper thin armor your lucky that maxim guy didn't bring out AT gun, i use to make maxim ratio to AT gun at 2:1

That's not luck, that's gauging how much MP your opponent could have spent and what plans he has and successfully figuring that he isn't expected to need AT anywhere near as early as I can get out a 251.

And a 251 flamer can kill an AT gun just like an M5 Quad can. They're both similar in lethality, though the 251 lacks suppression.

Also, if you're just making 2 Maxims and 1 AT gun with no conscripts early game, then my Ostwind and my mortars and my grens are going to destroy you. And my 251 flamer too, of course.

A 251 flame HT has like 1/10th of the DPS of a quadmount.

You just have to flank and overwhelm them mate.
-No other ways really to deal with snipers early game.
-When i say overwhelm, as Ostheer 2 grens with lmg42's pretty much insta wipe them within a decent range. If you can hold out that long, if not bait the snipers in with engi then ambush them with 2-3 grens super early game.

HT is good, cause you can creep and push the line. Flamer is not good, specially when most people who goes for snipers also gets Guards to counter any light vehicle.

A 251 flame HT has like 1/10th of the DPS of a quadmount.

But then you start using it on damaged squads and killing 3 guys per burst, and suddenly any infantry that wants to survive is forced to retreat, and even then aren't guaranteed their lives.

The 251 flamer is effective because of the flame crits, not because of pure DPS. It works great when supported with other units to soften up enemy infantry, especially with the flame weapon buff.

But then you start using it on damaged squads and killing 3 guys per burst, and suddenly any infantry that wants to survive is forced to retreat, and even then aren't guaranteed their lives.

The 251 flamer is effective because of the flame crits, not because of pure DPS. It works great when supported with other units to soften up enemy infantry, especially with the flame weapon buff.

The 251 got a straight up nerf when they changed flamers because the new crit chances at lower health only applied to infantry flamers and only infantry flamers got larger AoE's. Vehicle flamers and flame artillery just got a straight up nerf to crit chance.

The 251 got a straight up nerf when they changed flamers because the new crit chances at lower health only applied to infantry flamers and only infantry flamers got larger AoE's. Vehicle flamers and flame artillery just got a straight up nerf to crit chance.

O rly?

I never really built it much before this patch so I have no frame of reference. All I know is that I build one almost every match now and let my men feast on the well done corpses of rebel scum.

Guys, Ostruppen spam into FHT.

FHT is kinda pointless because at nades still destroy it, and 251 armor is paper thin like 222. No point. Its nice that its usable, but its still not good at all.