I think that whats missing here is consideration of the fact that the USF can equip every infantry unit they have with a zook, or even double zooks. A 4-rifles blob firing 8 zooks every few seconds is bad enough as it is, and a dire threat to all axis armour.
Ost can't field nearly as many PG's, and OKW can only upgrade one shreck. This is quality versus quantity again and making zooks identical to shrecks would almost certainly destroy any parity between the two sides completely.
ETA: and making zooks cheaper would only make it even easier for USF to mass blob zooks.
Bazooka accuracy buff?
8 Aug 2015, 22:00 PM
#21
Posts: 484
“Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.”
― Oscar Wilde
― Oscar Wilde
8 Aug 2015, 22:19 PM
#22
Posts: 2561
I think that whats missing here is consideration of the fact that the USF can equip every infantry unit they have with a zook, or even double zooks. A 4-rifles blob firing 8 zooks every few seconds is bad enough as it is, and a dire threat to all axis armour.That's bullshit. I see 4+ schreked pgrens all the time in teamgames. It might be cheesy and easy to counter, but there is no reason why USF shouldn't be able to do the same to the same degree of effectiveness.
Ost can't field nearly as many PG's, and OKW can only upgrade one shreck. This is quality versus quantity again and making zooks identical to shrecks would almost certainly destroy any parity between the two sides completely.
ETA: and making zooks cheaper would only make it even easier for USF to mass blob zooks.
It would be even easier to deal with on the axis side considering their tanks generally have better durability. Seriously you know what's really unfair. Turning the wrong corner and getting a easy 8 one shot by a schrek blob. maybe it's time for axis to feel a bit of that fear as well.
8 Aug 2015, 22:28 PM
#23
Posts: 2053
I think that whats missing here is consideration of the fact that the USF can equip every infantry unit they have with a zook, or even double zooks. A 4-rifles blob firing 8 zooks every few seconds is bad enough as it is, and a dire threat to all axis armour.
Ost can't field nearly as many PG's, and OKW can only upgrade one shreck. This is quality versus quantity again and making zooks identical to shrecks would almost certainly destroy any parity between the two sides completely.
ETA: and making zooks cheaper would only make it even easier for USF to mass blob zooks.
A rifleblob all wielding zooks? Thats a problem? USF's AI squad meant to beat grens and volks all equipped with AI hindering weapons? Pull up your own infantry and watch the riflemen do little damage. "a dire threat to all Axis armor", as if, mate. Look at those posted stats again. Its not like USF has to deal with shrecks 100% penetrating nearly all their vehicles. Oh, wait...
And no one is asking for zooks asking to be identical to schreks. Shreks do 120 damage and their lowest pen is still better than a bazooka's highest pen. People want zooks to be better because they are still a crap investment overshadowed by many other things.
Eat a snickers.
8 Aug 2015, 22:32 PM
#24
Posts: 255
I think that whats missing here is consideration of the fact that the USF can equip every infantry unit they have with a zook, or even double zooks. A 4-rifles blob firing 8 zooks every few seconds is bad enough as it is, and a dire threat to all axis armour.
Ost can't field nearly as many PG's, and OKW can only upgrade one shreck. This is quality versus quantity again and making zooks identical to shrecks would almost certainly destroy any parity between the two sides completely.
ETA: and making zooks cheaper would only make it even easier for USF to mass blob zooks.
A dire threat to ALL Axis armor? Except the most common and most important late game tanks you mean, like the Panther and Tiger.
I agree with the fact that Zooks are spammable and they would be abused if they were price buffed or damage/pen buffed, but they most certainly are not effective against arguably the most important Axis armor.
While Shrecks are effective against every USF tank from any angle.
8 Aug 2015, 22:39 PM
#25
Posts: 484
That's bullshit. I see 4+ schreked pgrens all the time in teamgames.
From one player, or all of them?
“Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.”
― Oscar Wilde
― Oscar Wilde
8 Aug 2015, 22:45 PM
#26
Posts: 484
A dire threat to ALL Axis armor? Except the most common and most important late game tanks you mean, like the Panther and Tiger.
Certainly. Because it's on top of AT rifle 'nades, AT guns, and tanks. Or P-47 strikes. Damage is cumulative.
Plus, they don't even have to to be Rifles - it could be a blob of cheap-'n-cheerful RE's.
I think this idea is just nuts.
“Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.”
― Oscar Wilde
― Oscar Wilde
8 Aug 2015, 22:50 PM
#27
Posts: 484
A rifleblob all wielding zooks? Thats a problem? USF's AI squad meant to beat grens and volks all equipped with AI hindering weapons? Pull up your own infantry and watch the riflemen do little damage.
In the late game, Axis is rather more likely than Allies to have lost infantry presence their smaller squad size makes them more vulnerable to wipes. On top of this, Rifles still have three AI weapons per squad, and zooks are far from utterly ineffective against infantry anyway. And if this isn't enough, you can deal with Axis infantry with your tanks, if you have to. Sherman HE, etc.
A situation in which the entire USF is geared up to counter Axis's single effective strength is an absolutely terrible idea.
“Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.”
― Oscar Wilde
― Oscar Wilde
8 Aug 2015, 23:17 PM
#28
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
While it is certainly true the accuracy of Bazookas and Schrecks are alike, there are some edge cases against the Zooka's favour with some Axis vehicles having a smaller target size than something comparable to the Allies', such as JPIV's 17 target size versus SU-85's 22 and M36's 24, or Kubel's 14 to M3A1's 18.
9 Aug 2015, 00:20 AM
#29
Posts: 1891
Pretty much been advocating 100 damage since day 1. It would put the bazooka ina much better spot.
My only worry is that Captain would counter 222 and Flaktrack too well. Maybe give him one zook.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
9 Aug 2015, 00:23 AM
#30
Posts: 758
While it is certainly true the accuracy of Bazookas and Schrecks are alike, there are some edge cases against the Zooka's favour with some Axis vehicles having a smaller target size than something comparable to the Allies', such as JPIV's 17 target size versus SU-85's 22 and M36's 24, or Kubel's 14 to M3A1's 18.
well that may explain why bazookas have a hard time hitting armored targets cuz all the axis armor have "small" profiles after all axis still hog and hoard all the best AT, armor and infantry in-game. they want it to stay that way but i hope they realize soon that it cant last forever...
9 Aug 2015, 00:27 AM
#31
Posts: 1891
Dude. STOP.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
9 Aug 2015, 00:30 AM
#32
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
well that may explain why bazookas have a hard time hitting armored targets cuz all the axis armor have "small" profiles after all axis still hog and hoard all the best AT, armor and infantry in-game. they want it to stay that way but i hope they realize soon that it cant last forever...
Great way to generalize things when a lot of Axis vehicles also have considerable target sizes aka above 20 or at. Even the Stug sits at a target size of 20.
9 Aug 2015, 00:34 AM
#33
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
One way to make the bazooka more accurate without increasing the accuracy stat (which increases missile sniping) would be to significantly decrease scatter. Decreased scatter would make "misses" hit more often.
Another option would be to implement target tables for missile AT weapons, and then increasing accuracy.
I don't think the bazooka needs much, since it can be used on any squad. Pen would make it to similar to the panzershreck, as would damage. I think that an accuracy buff will make it more viable reliably vs. light/medium armor, as the bazooka is meant to be in game (supposedly).
Another option would be to implement target tables for missile AT weapons, and then increasing accuracy.
I don't think the bazooka needs much, since it can be used on any squad. Pen would make it to similar to the panzershreck, as would damage. I think that an accuracy buff will make it more viable reliably vs. light/medium armor, as the bazooka is meant to be in game (supposedly).
9 Aug 2015, 00:43 AM
#34
Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1
Increase damage or lower cost, accuracy would make the Captain a sniper.
The internal battery has run dry, the game can now be played. However, clock based events will no longer occur.
9 Aug 2015, 00:48 AM
#35
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
One way to make the bazooka more accurate without increasing the accuracy stat (which increases missile sniping) would be to significantly decrease scatter. Decreased scatter would make "misses" hit more often.
Another option would be to implement target tables for missile AT weapons, and then increasing accuracy.
I don't think the bazooka needs much, since it can be used on any squad. Pen would make it to similar to the panzershreck, as would damage. I think that an accuracy buff will make it more viable reliably vs. light/medium armor, as the bazooka is meant to be in game (supposedly).
Would increasing the accuracy from 0.05/0.0375/0.025(off the top of my head, could be wrong) to something like 0.05/0.04/0.03-0.035 increase the bazooka snipes? From what I've seen and played the rocket snipe tends to come from people firing shreks and bazookas at near point-blank ranges where the projectile doesn't really have much room to scatter from the muzzle.
9 Aug 2015, 00:54 AM
#36
Posts: 589
My only worry is that Captain would counter 222 and Flaktrack too well. Maybe give him one zook.
Sure one zook sounds good, but he should also get an additional thompson if thats the case
9 Aug 2015, 00:59 AM
#37
Posts: 1891
Sure one zook sounds good, but he should also get an additional thompson if thats the case
This is good
The Fascisti Will Pay.
9 Aug 2015, 00:59 AM
#38
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
Would increasing the accuracy from 0.05/0.0375/0.025(off the top of my head, could be wrong) to something like 0.05/0.04/0.03-0.035 increase the bazooka snipes? From what I've seen and played the rocket snipe tends to come from people firing shreks and bazookas at near point-blank ranges where the projectile doesn't really have much room to scatter from the muzzle.
It would increase the snipes at mid and long, but only negligibly. Honestly, I would rather get rid of rocket snipes period, which is why I am partial to target tables (similar to the fix for the PTRS).
9 Aug 2015, 01:47 AM
#39
Posts: 1891
Why does the Captain have Bazookas anyway? Considering that his tier has the Stuart and AT gun it makes more sense for the Lieutenant to have 2 Zooks and the Captain to have a BAR.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
9 Aug 2015, 01:54 AM
#40
Posts: 204
Why does the Captain have Bazookas anyway? Considering that his tier has the Stuart and AT gun it makes more sense for the Lieutenant to have 2 Zooks and the Captain to have a BAR.
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