Flexibility and Variety for the less seen KV1 and KV2

With the recent (and amazing) work by relic to show they are infact wiling to fiddle with existing tech and commander structure I think it's high time to discuss an old issue. The amount of available commanders for German heavy tanks is in a nice place, you can get your Tiger, or Elephant with a variety of abilities to suit your play.

However the KV-1 and KV-2 are stuck in largely undesirable commanders. Personally I find it odd after 4-5 games its hard not to see the full variety of German tanks and vehicles. Yet it is either the ISU-152 or IS-2 that will be spotted in most matches with Soviets.

With the trade of the SturmTiger for the PzIV the changes to the T34/85 seem quite "Band-aid" in nature. Rather than having the commander have the 0 CP tank, the KV-1 or KV-2 could move into its place on these commanders for a CP value; and make the 85 a fuel upgrade in tier 4. The meta of DROVES of t34/85's and Easy Eights may have been solved, but I doubt it has people picking these commanders any less for the need of a tank with punch.

It's a fairly easy point of discussion that the KV-1 or KV-2 could use some love in the form of either new or moves to other commanders. Not to mention the Sans-OP Partisans and Irregulars. Relic has shown interest in doing the work, so its a better time to discuss.

what would the benefit be of a call in kv1 over an 85 that i can get. kv1s are essentially just beefier t34s

what would the benefit be of a call in kv1 over an 85 that i can get. kv1s are essentially just beefier t34s

heavy tank/hp armour with a medium gun. basically a cheap attack opener/damage sponge.

I'd also personally would like to see the Soviet Lend-lease sherman in the very least moved the same way the T-34/85 moved.

As for the KV-2 my favorite least used tank, the problem is the doctrine overall isnt that great so many people never use the doctrine let alone get the KV-2. A possible fix for the doctrine may just be having the "Soviet Industry" work much like the CAS Ammo, where you click the button and spend 150 manpower for 40 fuel. I still would like to see KV-2 in some other commanders.

KV-1 and KV-2 are literally only in one commander out of all the variety of commanders for soviets.

KV-1 is just a fatter and slower T-34/76. KV-2 is a great anti infantry vehicle, but its commander isn't that great.

The only way the KV-1 would be viable is if it:

A) came out earlier
B) got armor bonus with veterancy

it wouldn't hurt to have a better vet 1 ability too

The KV-1 comes out the same time medium vehicles do and it has a better gun (faster reload) than the T34. Iv had great success with it so far because it can beat PIV's 1 on 1 and tank enemy fire while no longer having to deal with Tiger spam.

Yeah it could use a better vet 1 ability.

"people talking about how to make an underwhelming unit that never gets built more viable"

Alex - "I make them all the time they're really effective"

"people talking about how to make an underwhelming unit that never gets built more viable"

Alex - "I make them all the time they're really effective"

Just between you and me......

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KV-1 could be in more commanders, but the unit itself is fine. No tech cost is huge, it's very survivable.

I think the KV1 should come in more commanders or be somewhere in the tech tree.According to almighty wikipedia the USSR built around 5000 of them,which would be around the number of the panther,and waaay more than the tiger.It's also one of the iconic soviet vehicles for many who have played games with ussr armor involved.It would also add to the variety of units that can be seen in play for people who do not have the rare counter attack tactics(even if the last patch was amazing already for variety,thanks relic)

this thread is not to discuss unit effectiveness, so when you reply with the units stats to a thread about its lack of commander options please read the title again.

Current state of affairs is a lack of variety on tanks that makes for very boring commander selections.

The ice cream shop currently,

Tiger - 5 Ace included

PZIV Command Tank - 5

KV1 - 1

KV2 - 1

IS2 - 2

IS-152 - 2

T34/85 - 3

Flexibility would go along way to not see commanders in rotation against Soviet on a common basis.

Sure, if Relic is willing to look over the crappiest of soviet commanders.

They should fix the KV8 "heavy" flamethrower tank being able to be fielded more than 1 on the field at a time issue.

I've played it only in other mods.

The reason why you wont see the KV-1/KV-2 more is, sadly, due to Relic's business model.

If they put the KV-1/KV-2 in more doctrines, then the commanders are worthless if you were going for them just for the KV-1 and KV-2.

If they buffed it so it was usable, ppl would cry P2W. Tbh, I would too.

Its their shitty business model that has dug themselves into this hole, and sadly, tanks like the KV-2 and especially the KV-1 which is an iconic Soviet WW2 Vehicle has to suffer.

I'd also personally would like to see the Soviet Lend-lease sherman in the very least moved the same way the T-34/85 moved.

I don't think it's necessary. The 'super' medium tanks got moved, but this one is pretty standard. It's got Sherman durability and better AT performance than a Panzer IV.

The business model wouldn't be harmed, considering all commanders drop; or people would buy the new commanders if they weren't useless so that doesn't make much sense.

They could make the KV1 non-doc, but it would probably just overshadow the T34/76

They could make the KV1 non-doc, but it would probably just overshadow the T34/76

That would certainly make kv-1's more common, if Relic was somehow capable of keeping Counterattack tactics a thing and incorporate the kv-1 in the tech tree somehow.

As for the kv-1 overshadowing the t34/76...

The t34/76 now costs 300 mp 80 fuel...

The kv-1 costs 420 mp 145 fuel...

A soviet player can get nearly two t34/76's for the price of the kv-1, which is the advantage of the t34.

The KV-1 has a much better performance in pretty much all area's except speed. It has a better reload (that gets insane with the vet on it), armor can that bounce shots, and it can kill a PIV 1 on 1 easily.

Sure T34/76's are spammable, but they are also harder to micro.