Three ways to improve CoH2 from the Open Beta build

It does not surprise me that relic is reluctant to change certain things. I would not be impressed either by arguments by people who use words like "egotistical", "cunt" and "fuck", phrases such as "get that idea out of the room and kill it with fire" and comparisons with McDonalds and school experiences.

Other than that, the current function of cover during blizzards is disregarded together with the existence of additional commanders, which have not been released yet, creating an alternative for the dual commander tree.

Of course, there are important and useful abilities like the scouting planes and "Hit the dirt!" that can even change how the early game is played out. But the general gist that PingPing is addressing is correct: The commanders do and may not influence the play-style too drastically, otherwise it would be a nightmare to balance 20 or even more once the game ships and more are available and even worse not all players have equal access to all these commanders.

If only one of these commanders could influence the gameplay in a manner that matters like it did in CoH1, like skipping T2 and relying on Stormtroopers instead (someone could surely come up with a better example), that would be a huge advantage if that commander was a paid DLC commander. Or even if it was a standard high level commander, everybody would select this one commander into their roster.

Relic basically has to fine tune and balance every commander and every intel bulletin over months when the game ships as the meta game develops to monitor shifts in favoritism or exploitation of units/abilities. And this has to be done with each introduction of a new batch of commanders and bulletins not to mention content patches and expansion packs. I sure hope they have the means and endurance to do so. As I really like to invest a lot of my time in this game.

It does not surprise me that relic is reluctant to change certain things. I would not be impressed either by arguments by people who use words like "egotistical", "cunt" and "fuck", phrases such as "get that idea out of the room and kill it with fire" and comparisons with McDonalds and school experiences.

Other than that, the current function of cover during blizzards is disregarded together with the existence of additional commanders, which have not been released yet, creating an alternative for the dual commander tree.

your comment fails in almost every way ...

1) you should judge an argment by the ideas it contains not by the way its been phrased

2) how on earth is the combination of the fanction of cover during blizzards combined with the commanders going to create an alternative for the dual command tree ? and how do y know that ? are you a dev ?

It does not surprise me that relic is reluctant to change certain things. I would not be impressed either by arguments by people who use words like "egotistical", "cunt" and "fuck", phrases such as "get that idea out of the room and kill it with fire" and comparisons with McDonalds and school experiences.

Other than that, the current function of cover during blizzards is disregarded together with the existence of additional commanders, which have not been released yet, creating an alternative for the dual commander tree.

your comment fails in almost every way ...

1) you should judge an argment by the ideas it contains not by the way its been phrased

2) how on earth is the combination of the fanction of cover during blizzards combined with the commanders going to create an alternative for the dual command tree ? and how do y know that ? are you a dev ?

If only one of these commanders could influence the gameplay in a manner that matters like it did in CoH1, like skipping T2 and relying on Stormtroopers instead (someone could surely come up with a better example), that would be a huge advantage if that commander was a paid DLC commander. Or even if it was a standard high level commander, everybody would select this one commander into their roster.

Thats why the coh system was a lot better , you had 3 doctrines that along with certain teching and recruiting choices could make for big changes between playstyles on their own and that was without mentioning any of the other factors tommy listed

Two "small" things to drastically improve the game:

* Remove the ability to shoot out of M3 and M5. They're good enough already without this. I hate to both be on the receiving end of this and using it myself. It just feels way too cheesy and "brit-like".

* Give the 222 upgun some splash damage so it can at least stand up to vanilla soviet engineers and it'll not have the most narrow role in the game.

your comment fails in almost every way ...

1) you should judge an argment by the ideas it contains not by the way its been phrased

2) how on earth is the combination of the fanction of cover during blizzards combined with the commanders going to create an alternative for the dual command tree ? and how do y know that ? are you a dev ?

Presentation is almost as important as the content itself. If you want to get Relic to change things, present your arguments well, otherwise they are not going to take it serious.

It should be noted that starting your argument with "your comment fails in almost every way" is a perfect example of a type of phrasing which is not constructive, quite personal and hard to seperate from content.

Multiple commanders (>3) partially replace CoH1 commander tree-side decisions, especially when commanders are somewhat similar. Increasing the number of commanders creates more strategic opportunities. This resembles the CoH1 tree-side decision.

What about wires and sandbags ?
I haven't play since the closed beta but are the sandbag still the same 5 meters long one build thing ?
vCoh sandbag aren't good neither. I don't like the idea to pack my 5 volks behind only 1 sandbag.
But being forced to build 1 very long sandbag is even worth. I remember being unable to build it where I'd like because of its size.
Perfect sandbag would be little piece of bags like vcoh but with only 1 or 2 cover slot per side of the sandbag ; so if you want to have your whole squad in cover,you have to build 2-3 sandbags.

Two "small" things to drastically improve the game:

* Remove the ability to shoot out of M3 and M5. They're good enough already without this. I hate to both be on the receiving end of this and using it myself. It just feels way too cheesy and "brit-like".

* Give the 222 upgun some splash damage so it can at least stand up to vanilla soviet engineers and it'll not have the most narrow role in the game.

I will vote for you in next election I think those two changes will make CoH2 funnier to play.

I'll be tuning in next month for 'Two things Relic needs to get the fuck on thread' - Sorry for the language Riddler (I'm an egotistical cunt at times)


I kid though, I kid.

Can't we all just start drawing up ideas for a redux mod for Coh2 already? seems like you got the right resources here to be able to get it off the ground: mappers, coders, strat anorachs.

Well - I'm glad I cancelled my pre-order in the close Beta to be honest.

The open Beta was enough to reinforce my decision - I don't see any reason to pay the big bucks for a game on opening day that I feel is really broken.

I'll get it later when they patch it accordingly - and when it's $10 or $20 rather than the $50 or $60 they're asking.

Right now - in its current shape - COH2 just isn't fun or a strategic challenge - they've taken away from COH what made it stand apart - oddly enough they took them away to make the game more approachable - which I think is the problem - COH was successful DUE to it's strategic nature and specific impacts of choice rather than this generic-ized mess we see now with some "commanders" thrown in.

Anybody notice how the commanders are all generally the same? Arty strike of some type - check - big armored unit - check - AT inf - check....there's pretty much zero differentiation - thus channelizing the way you'll play the game - thus shortening it's life span.

That's why COH was great - you not only had to master a faction - you then had 3 distinct ways to play that faction - now - you don't.

I don't want to read this whole thread, but I do want to agree with OP. Well, I agree with the tl;dr at the very least.

Find ways to increase the skill ceiling, get MOAR people in the game, and give us dat observer mode. Prepare for coh2, the latest and greatest in e-sports.

Well said Tommy. Excellent write up.

Agree with Tommy 100 per cent.

I'll be tuning in next month for 'Two things Relic needs to get the fuck on thread' - Sorry for the language Riddler (I'm an egotistical cunt at times)


I kid though, I kid.

Can't we all just start drawing up ideas for a redux mod for Coh2 already? seems like you got the right resources here to be able to get it off the ground: mappers, coders, strat anorachs.

Why do that when they are giving us bix fixes every 2-3 days?

I think Tommy said it really nice here. There are many other things that could be better but these 3 that Tommy mentioned are the key for much, much better gameplay.

Appart from suppression and the cover of buildings,
what has been changed to the effect of cover from vCoh to Coh2?
the stats seem to be the same.

cover type accuracy / damage

negative cover 1.25 / 1.25
open 1 / 1
yellow cower 0,5 / 1
green cover 0.5 / 0.5

I think maybe the standardized health values and the slower infantry combat that relies more on crits changes the dynamic. At the very least it seems like units in green cover get suppressed more easily, although possibly that's just because Conscript sandbags (the green cover I'm thinking of) either work different or people wander out of the cover.

When you're actually behind green cover with every man, you don't get suppressed for quite awhile. The sandbags just don't allow all 6 men to line up neatly.

I had all my men perfectly behind sandbags and they got surpressed as if they were in the open. I hope "real" greencover is better.

The cover issue is troubling. As an OLDSKOOL CoH player cover is what made that game unique amidst a cloud of other RTS games.

I think the maps suck ball sacks too.