ML-20 152mm Howitzer

Eeach single game I play against that pathetic russian race

*tips fedora*

The LeFH has 2 advantages; firing slightly more shells and a "shorter" cooldown. Neither of them make up for the fact that it's the same price as the ML-20 despite being a worse artillery piece. Yes people still play OKW, but people still played Soviets back during old Tiger ace days and people played Axis during 100 range anti-everything ISU days.

Someone forgot about great counter barrage.

Well Grenadiers and Conscripts cost the same buuuut...yeah,no problem here ?
Plus,the LefH is pretty good,on long games I haz over 20 kills with it

Wow 20, thats a lot for a fixed arty piece right? XD

Listen OKW got a number of buffs and its a fun faction to play. I started playing OKW almost after 8 months. Both artillary pieces have advantages and disadvantages. I have taken out ML 20 blobbers using stuka bombs(btw not only CAS has stuka dive bombs, not that I am apologizing for CAS, I LOVE CAS ) and it was GG. And I play against a lot of Quad rushers too, but its easily counterable and people are realizing that now and the whine train is over.

The artillery pieces got a buff finally, i don't want either nerfed only after days

I agree. The thing about changing the game all the time (balance patches) is that the players must constantly adapt and discover new tactics. It takes long enough to get a grip about CoH2 as it is and changing up how units work will set everybody back a bit everytime. I don't care for e-sports but THIS should be the one of the main concerns why CoH2 can't be an e-sport game. It's like changing the baseline in a tennis court a bit forwards and backwards and the height of the net and how many serves you get every now and then. The playes competing in tennis stand for years and smack that ball trying to perfect their technique with the limits of the court and the rules of the game and then boundaries get moved?

I'm happy the arty for both sides became useful again.

Wow 20, thats a lot for a fixed arty piece right? XD

That's four squads of 240 mp infantry. 600 mp howitzer then killed 920 mp infantry. Plus the fear for standing still. Yes that's not too bad. Imagine if you would get more out of it.

The LeFH has 2 advantages; firing slightly more shells and a "shorter" cooldown. Neither of them make up for the fact that it's the same price as the ML-20 despite being a worse artillery piece.

? Those things do make up for it. Units in this game should not be identical. In unit per unit comparisons, often one come out stronger than the other in this game because balance is bigger than that.

Soviet howitzers iz OP!!!!! PLz nerf them

Someone forgot about great counter barrage.

Counter-barrage is useless, you are better off just shooting at enemy artillery manually because;

-It doesn't fire as many shells as a normal barrage

-It's not even more accurate

-You can't control it and it has a cooldown like the normal barrage

Like seriously it's flabbergasting how many times Iv turned it on for it to only shoot at a mortar instead of the enemy howitzer. Iv found much better luck just shooting at the enemy artillery manually and hoping for the best. If you have a LeFH counter-barrage a ML-20 and the ML-20 shoots back the ML-20 will almost always win.

I love when racist neo nazis play ww2 games and gets mad when they lose. They come to coh2 like a moth to a flame

What are you trying to say here.



How about them just being equal? The LeFH's positives do not outweigh the ML-20's positives. If they are going to cost them same, take up the same pop cap they need to be similar in performance. If think something costing the same and being objectively worse is okay then well just lol



And that's what it took to give Soviets a good stock army minus like 1 or 2 units.



???

The SU-76 costs less than the StuG III but has better pen and range, Ostheer doesn't even have a TD with 60 range. Soviet light vehicles SHRED Axis light vehicles. Soviet snipers have a reduced ROF because they are shooting at smaller squads and Soviet infantry is very very much not inferior to Axis infantry. Ostheer doesn't even HAVE elite infantry and cons outperform Volks till vet 3 and OKW doesn't even have a mortar.

Stop trying to excuse shitty things NOW with old irrelevant arguments. Sorry but Relic heeded your cries and made Soviets have a good stock army now, you can stop whining (and maybe if you do you will get much better at the game!).

HOLD ON THERE,the entire soviet stock army is awful compared to the werh and okw ones yet i havent seen you complaining about that,EVEN DOCTRINAL UNITS are worse then the german ones,best example is the IS-2 it has more pop cap,costs more and is limited to one YET the panther outperforms it WHICH COSTS LESS MP FUEL AND POP CAP AND HAS NO LIMIT does everything the is-2 does and its a stock unit YET i havent seen you complain about that.

the isu-152 WHICH COSTS EVEN MORE still cant penetrate the panther reliable and reloads longer then a elefant and does less damage to tanks YET i havent seen you complain about it.

the SOVIET SNIPER is a joke compared to the werh one even in durability (yet costs the same) and the werh sniper does better damage compared to its counter part(also the sniper along with the mg42 make usf cry,and no light vechiles fail to kill them cause of that crazy hp buff)and your excuce for this is what squad size?you forgat to mention the reinforce cost it causes to allies then and how it escapes death.

the mortars(both 120MM AND 82MM) are AWFUL compared to the fast firing wiping machine mortar yet costs the same/more and you dont complain about that either.

the shreck eliminates armor play(they even penetrate and damage IS-2s) compared to the ptrs at rifle yet you thing its fine.

the su76 is a joke compared to stugs perfomamnce(range,skills,vet bonus)yet somehow you think its worse.

the t34/76 THE WORST UNIT OF THEM ALL is the WORST STOCK TANK YOU CAN GET AND COMPARED TO PUMAs ITS AWFUL and its vet is also AWFUL yet you dont complain about that.

the su85 accuracy,penetration is awful compared to the cheap stug which you think is being outperfomned by su76s and fails to penetrate panthers,tigers,king tigers(tank detroyer cant damage tanks NOT KILL THEM,DAMAGE THEM*)

OH WE CAN ALSO TALK ABOUT AIR SUPPORT PRICE/PERFOMNCE COMPARED TO SOVIET ONES IF YOU LIKE.

ALSO did you knew that your "outperfomned" howitzer outperforms the B-4 WHICH ALSO COSTS THE SAME??????????????

Now one unit which is better then the AXIS one is some ares NOT ALL you wish it nerfed???

oh OBERCOMMNADO WEST CAN KILL IT WITH (walking stuka,luchs dive,panther dive,infantry support gun) use them!cause if you dont then sept 3rd wont be a happy update for you!

^ did you ever play as axis?
Why are you comparing Ele with ISU 152 and when was the last time an Ele killed your capping inf squad from the fog of war?
Panther vs IS2 (Panther has like 90% less dps against inf)

Sniper perform (almost) equal against each others squads (4men vs 6 men squads) but is a lot more squishy

su76 is less expensive then the Stug comes a lot more early and has a free barrage (also Stug is a better TD) (btw su76 has more pen than Stug)

Puma vs T34 - Scout-car vs Tank , you can't compare that

su85 is probably the best TD in the game(besides high vet jagdpanzer4)

air performance, since Alex is mostly complaining that OKW has counter to the ml-20 i would say that allies have the better airforce (you know okw has no aircrafts)

B-4 was nerfed hard but I would say 1-shot potential is worth a lot

OKWs heroic counters
-walking Stuka (100fuel and you have to get close)
-Luchs/Panther rush : maybe possible in 1 on 1 but not in 2 on 2
-infantry support gun now that was a good one


But before the Allied-fanboy-shitstorm hits me with all it's might
I think that SU should get all stock Units buffed and the 1-Shot garbage nerfed

^ did you ever play as axis?
Why are you comparing Ele with ISU 152 and when was the last time an Ele killed your capping inf squad from the fog of war?
Panther vs IS2 (Panther has like 90% less dps against inf)

Sniper perform (almost) equal against each others squads (4men vs 6 men squads) but is a lot more squishy

su76 is less expensive then the Stug comes a lot more early and has a free barrage (also Stug is a better TD) (btw su76 has more pen than Stug)

Puma vs T34 - Scout-car vs Tank , you can't compare that

su85 is probably the best TD in the game(besides high vet jagdpanzer4)

air performance, since Alex is mostly complaining that OKW has counter to the ml-20 i would say that allies have the better airforce (you know okw has no aircrafts)

B-4 was nerfed hard but I would say 1-shot potential is worth a lot

OKWs heroic counters
-walking Stuka (100fuel and you have to get close)
-Luchs/Panther rush : maybe possible in 1 on 1 but not in 2 on 2
-infantry support gun now that was a good one


But before the Allied-fanboy-shitstorm hits me with all it's might
I think that SU should get all stock Units buffed and the 1-Shot garbage nerfed

Well puma more better at long ranges, t34 will lose here. But at close distance t34 can win. It is wrong to compare is2 and panther. First, is2 in docs, panther non doc. Second, it is different tanks, panther have more mobility and can easily destroy is2 with good flank. Also, is2 vs infantry is kinda shit and RNG depended. Allies have air performance? I loled. OST have a lot of good air strikes and it is better then sov and murica. OKW have good arty strikes and I think relic will add more docs with planes to OKW.

^ did you ever play as axis?
Why are you comparing Ele with ISU 152 and when was the last time an Ele killed your capping inf squad from the fog of war?
Panther vs IS2 (Panther has like 90% less dps against inf)

Sniper perform (almost) equal against each others squads (4men vs 6 men squads) but is a lot more squishy

su76 is less expensive then the Stug comes a lot more early and has a free barrage (also Stug is a better TD) (btw su76 has more pen than Stug)

Puma vs T34 - Scout-car vs Tank , you can't compare that

su85 is probably the best TD in the game(besides high vet jagdpanzer4)

air performance, since Alex is mostly complaining that OKW has counter to the ml-20 i would say that allies have the better airforce (you know okw has no aircrafts)

B-4 was nerfed hard but I would say 1-shot potential is worth a lot

OKWs heroic counters
-walking Stuka (100fuel and you have to get close)
-Luchs/Panther rush : maybe possible in 1 on 1 but not in 2 on 2
-infantry support gun now that was a good one


But before the Allied-fanboy-shitstorm hits me with all it's might
I think that SU should get all stock Units buffed and the 1-Shot garbage nerfed

This is so one-sided...
When was last time when ISU dealt 320dmg with 100% chance of penetration (96% to pen IS2 at max range).

Panther and IS2? Why would you even compare them? Completly different units.
OST sniper is more squishy?
Stug has more health, armor which can bounce something and OP stun shot.
Puma is very good counter agasint Sherman or T34.
What makes you think SU85 is best TD?
Better air focres? Take a look at CAS, Stuka or even luftwaffe.
B-4 is pure RNG right now.

Sure, give OKW something like Stuka diving bomb to kill howies in doctrines. So you must gain vision and then use ability. but that's not problem with howie, but with OKW design.

Still, there is off map which comes with Jaegers.

-Its price is its counter, you can field 2 squads with that much mp, use that to your advantage.
-If he has the luxury of keeping his arty until you retreat, then you're not pressuring adequately.
-If you are getting a hard time against (this) arty, hold off your commander pick until you see what your opponent picked, so you can counter-pick. It might be 'annoying' to not be able to 'play what you want any time you want' but this is a pvp game, it's not scripted.

This pretty much is the solution.

I remember in Coh1 when I saw double brits going for a heavy arty build I knew I won the game. Since their field presence is just so much weakened by this investment.

Pressure the sh*** out of them, win.

Though I respect OKW problems with base-to-base arty. Its a tough and frustrating ride.

Why not reduce the damage of the 152 to 200 and increase the amount of shells fired by it by default and make it's vet 1 ability an artillery flare ability that can give you sight? That way it does less damage and does less squad wipes but is still useful and gives you recon like the other Soviet indirect fire units do.

I think the LeFH should just be reduced to 500 MP tbh, rather than trying to put it on the level of the 152. Also make counter-barrage fire more shells or be more accurate.

EDIT: My rational is that howitzers should be more about consistent DPS rather than 1 shots.

@Gluhoman and Australian Magic
I was refering to the guy above me who compared IS2 and Panther aswell as Puma and T34

and i clearly stated that i compared OKW's airforce with the allied one (since ost has a lot of hard counter aginst ml-20 unlike OKW)

^ did you ever play as axis?
Why are you comparing Ele with ISU 152 and when was the last time an Ele killed your capping inf squad from the fog of war?
Panther vs IS2 (Panther has like 90% less dps against inf)

Sniper perform (almost) equal against each others squads (4men vs 6 men squads) but is a lot more squishy

su76 is less expensive then the Stug comes a lot more early and has a free barrage (also Stug is a better TD) (btw su76 has more pen than Stug)

Puma vs T34 - Scout-car vs Tank , you can't compare that

su85 is probably the best TD in the game(besides high vet jagdpanzer4)

air performance, since Alex is mostly complaining that OKW has counter to the ml-20 i would say that allies have the better airforce (you know okw has no aircrafts)

B-4 was nerfed hard but I would say 1-shot potential is worth a lot

OKWs heroic counters
-walking Stuka (100fuel and you have to get close)
-Luchs/Panther rush : maybe possible in 1 on 1 but not in 2 on 2
-infantry support gun now that was a good one


But before the Allied-fanboy-shitstorm hits me with all it's might
I think that SU should get all stock Units buffed and the 1-Shot garbage nerfed

k before i point out every thing you said let me say something,i play BOTH factions k?? got that?? GOOD,to prove it i disliked the King tiger armor nerf so much i quited playing OKW cause that thing was k and the problem which still hasnt been resolved is the shreck!!!!i still havent played them since that patch(played them in the alpha to test changes ONLY THEN after that patch) butfrom axis i only play ost now and oh man they got ALOT of buffs

now the ISU-152 VS ELEFANT comparison,as you are aware the isu-152 has High Explosive and Armor piercing,it also has long reload(9-11 secs) and has a minumum close range at which it cant fire,it costs the same,has less armor,(310 compared to a 400 armor beast) less damage (240 compared to a huge 320) and costs the same!,now my comparision is with the penetration and damage really i never said anything about its anti infantry being leser then a elefant but still we cant ignore the isu-152 has an anti tank mode which clearly cant do much to huge tanks and is for that nor supirior to the elefant ALSO do you know a unit that ALSO costs the same YET doest everything better then the isu-152? KING TIGER! same damage,more armor,no at/ai mode,better pen,better ai,same speed,not the same range BUT has a turret(which i find too slow at times)should the king tiger have ai shells and at shells then?? no it shouldnt but since the isu 152 has those shells when i choose AT ROUNDS I EXPECT IT FOR THAT LONG RELOAD TO DO EITHER HUGE DAMAGE,OR SHOULD ALWAYS PENETRATE k got it? good

the IS-2 has very good Anti Infantry perfomnace compared to the panther ONLY WHEN IT HITS,the gun is inaccurate also the Machine gun upgrade of the is-2 is not as good as the cheap one of the panther yet costs more then the panthers mg 42(with that mg the panther deals better with infantry AND can deal with tanks such the is-2 and isu-152) the panther at the cost of 490Mp 175FUELL outperforms the is-2 at AT and also with the cheap mg at Anti inf,the is-2 costs 640mp 230fuel yet is inaccurate,fails to penetrate the panther a medium tank clearly the IS-2 cant handle mediums as it was supposed to and clearly is being outperformed by a cheap stock unit(cheap compared to the is-2)

the soviet sniper is not as good as the werh one,they are both snipers also the soviet one will also encounter 5/6 man squads and suddly becomes useless YET your werh sniper is "balanced" its not like it will eliminate variaty to the usf or kill complitly soviets yet also survive a succesful flank with that ridiculus hp,also the soviet snipers "durability"when it loses a soldier and you retreat it YOU MUST REINFORCE THE SNIPER SQUAD and it aint cheap WHILE werh sniper only needs healing and BOOM ready to join the war effort,the only strength the soviet has is a 2 soldier squad that is also hardly a strength when they die faster then a lone werh sniper facing shock troops.

Puma Vs T34-76,of course you can compare it the puma a light vechile is more mobile,deals and penetrates the t34 yet costs less mp then it AND COMES FASTER great job the main battle tank of the soviets is even more delayed and can also be killed VERY RELIABLY by a dam Puma,if you find it funny or stupid then clearly you havent played soviets or havent used the t34-76 after the tech changes,i would suggest you play 20 matches of 2vs2 and up us soviets and use the t34-76 and tell me how much you vetted every one you made and how much it lasted

the SU-85 is only good against medium tanks (excluding panther),it has TERRIBLE long range accuracy(might as well remove its long range)penetration is awful against heavys and panthers,apart from that a cheap stug does everything the su-85s and has better skills(if not the creazy reload vet 2 the su 85 gets) and comes earlier.clearly having a greater price tag helps it to the eyes of many be "ok" and supirior

OKW has 1 airforce ability that strafe run an enemy sector,drop smoke,and drop fallschirmjagers for 250 munations(aint cheap but still is not awful and not easily counterable by allies).

the B-4 is only good if it hits(just like the is-2) if it doesnt then i am sorry its not worth a 600mp price tag and that long cooldown it has,the vet ability is good vsTanks but still needs clear field of view,again this is the lottery machine you either do HUGE DAMAGE or just end up losing your money to the RNG machine

Again Okw have counters yet you somehow expect them to be cheaper,in my opinion you expect too much,the walking stuka is a mobile rocket artillary instawipes infantry and comes veary early,its also very mobile and all that for 100 fuel,if it was cheaper or OKW didnt had fuel problems then we would have the walking stuka spam problem allies faced at vCOH,it instawipes a ml-20 crews and with the second strafe the gun itself.
the LUCH and PANTHER both can dive enemy lines and still survive and also kill the gun,in 2vs2,3vs3s,4vs4 its even easier really and more safe,1vs1s its just downright hard.
the ISG is a 330mp mortar that has long range and good accuracy and fire very fast,if you manage(especialy in 1vs1)to keep the front you can use it to kill the howitzer but still sometimes RNG can favor the enemy ,in 2vs2s and up its not an easy counter so yea its mostly a reliable counter to 1vs1 games against ML-20.

su-76 pen compared to the stug is slightly better(VERY SLIGHTLY)so much so its actually doesnt make an impact on the game,but yes you are correct its better then the stugs.

Why not reduce the damage of the 152 to 200 and increase the amount of shells fired by it by default and make it's vet 1 ability an artillery flare ability that can give you sight? That way it does less damage and does less squad wipes but is still useful and gives you recon like the other Soviet indirect fire units do.

I think the LeFH should just be reduced to 500 MP tbh, rather than trying to put it on the level of the 152. Also make counter-barrage fire more shells or be more accurate.

EDIT: My rational is that howitzers should be more about consistent DPS rather than 1 shots.

sorry the "wipes" wont stop if you dont reduce its splash damage so even if you reduce its HE damage to 100 its still going to wipe infantry,the reload is very iconic to the ISU-152 and a very good balance option for an anti everything unit,also it already has an ability that gives the ISU-152 self spot so.....

the LeFH could only use an accuracy buff NOTHING MORE its price should remain the same

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I dont think you are playing the same game as rest of the players here.

I dont think you are playing the same game as rest of the players here.

OFC i am not playing vs the CPU A.I,i am playing VS REAL PLAYERS.

I love when racist neo nazis play ww2 games and gets mad when they lose. They come to coh2 like a moth to a flame

lmao dude you're just as bad

I mean my god, think before you post please

But CPU Easy is not a bad player :/