21st patch Howie's + 2 click counters. What to do?

So, I've been playing a fair bit of the preview patch, and have been testing out the howitzers.

It's pretty clear, that they are now OP (both ML 20 and LefH). If you don't have a 2 click counter, or your oppo has built it in a stupid place (unlikely), it's pretty much 'GG' in 1v1. I smashed a team mate in 1v1 using them, when I had no right to win the game as easily as I did. ML20 just brute forces the opponent from the game, whilst the LefH is super fast firing.

2v2 it's a little better, but like above, unless you have that 2 click counter, or 1 player has some sort of recon run, and the other player has an offmap strike, it again is pretty much GG.

There are just too many salvo's, and they are too far reaching.

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On the other hand, we have the two click counter, that can just wipe out a 600mp investment so easily.

You can't really take them out of the game, as howie's in 1v1 would just be ridiculous OP, if the user has half a brain and protects it from some kind of armour rush, or stuka/katy/Pwerfer/priest strike (which would most likely not kill the gun anyway).

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If you make them cheaper than 600 MP (to offset 2 click counter efficiency), they become spamable. I'm pretty sure nobody wants to see Company of Arty 2...

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OKW also has no counter to howitzers, save for a Stuka, which isn't really a hard counter. The USF has no counter outside of priests.


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So, we as the community have a dilemma.

If someone would like to use Howie's, they probably aren't going to build them if they see any 2 click counter in the opponents load out (no matter how many salvo's they get).

If someone sees any kind of howitzer in the opponents loadout, they are most likely forced into a 2 click counter commander in 1v1 (and most likely 2v2 too).



So how do we solve this ever vicious cycle?

Howitzers will continue to be either OP or UP as long as they are able to be built within the base.

Howitzers will continue to be either OP or UP as long as they are able to be built within the base.

Well yes, but that doesn't really solve the issue. Even if built out side the base, they still have massive range, and that 2 click counter is still a ridiculously efficient tradeoff (even without CAS).

The issue is that counter-battery fire is kinda hard to do. Like if you go LefH and your opponent goes for an ML-20 you can kill him with counter-barrage but if your OKW then your just SoL.

Give OKW some actual howitzers and counters and we can move from there. But yeah no artillery in bases is a good place to start.

The issue is that counter-battery fire is kinda hard to do. Like if you go LefH and your opponent goes for an ML-20 you can kill him with counter-barrage but if your OKW then your just SoL.

Give OKW some actual howitzers and counters and we can move from there. But yeah no artillery in bases is a good place to start.

And what about muricans?

And what about muricans?

The Priest does actually have the ability to kill enemy howitzers using it's vet 1 ability, but obviously Americans could use more support weapons.

Outside of counter battery fire Americans have plentiful recon and artillery strikes. Mechanized artillery and Time on Target will both easily kill an enemy howitzer.

The Priest does actually have the ability to kill enemy howitzers using it's vet 1 ability, but obviously Americans could use more support weapons.

Outside of counter battery fire Americans have plentiful recon and artillery strikes. Mechanized artillery and Time on Target will both easily kill an enemy howitzer.

OKW have Stuka, it's a great counter unit against support weapons and emplacements like howitzers. OKW have good arty strikes too.

OKW have Stuka, it's a great counter unit against support weapons and emplacements like howitzers. OKW have good arty strikes too.

Against things like the Pack Howitzer maybe, but without Vet 3 the Stuka Zu Fuss has nowhere near the range required to kill (permanently) enemy howitzers. And OKW arty strikes do not guarantee kills; not even scavenge and you can't call in zeroing on the enemy base.

OKW have Stuka, it's a great counter unit against support weapons and emplacements like howitzers. OKW have good arty strikes too.

No it's not. The ML20 has far too much range, to expect a stuka zu fuss to take it out, against any reasonable opponent.

Also, I'm not seeing any solutions here so far...

Against things like the Pack Howitzer maybe, but without Vet 3 the Stuka Zu Fuss has nowhere near the range required to kill (permanently) enemy howitzers. And OKW arty strikes do not guarantee kills; not even scavenge and you can't call in zeroing on the enemy base.

Stuka can come more earlier than howitzer, so you can reach vet 3 faster that howitzer hit the ground. Also, priest need vet 1 for his ability and it is difficult to counter ost howitzer on their base too.

The ML-20, now that it fires the same amount of shells per barrage at vet 1 compared to the leFH, will be problematic.

Against Ostheer: Insta-countered by CAS or any other commander with Stuka Dive Bombs.

Against OKW: Pretty effective because OKW has only one doctrine with a recon ability and most off-maps won't destroy it.

It also deals a huge amount of damage (300) and has a lots of targets vs OKW (trucks).

The LeFH deals way less damage (160) and doesn't even fire more shells.

First of all, both howitzers should receive a price reduction to 400-450MP to make Stuka Dive bombs less efficient. IIRC 1 ammo is worth 2MP. 180 (Dive Bomb) * 2 = 360MP

Then, both howitzers need to be balanced compared to eachother.

Possible solutions:

1. Reduce the amount of shells fired by the Ml-20 to 4 (6 at vet 1).
2. Increase damage of the leFH.
3. Reduce damage of the ML-20.
4. A combination of all those options.

R.I.P. OKW vs 152mm

The LeFH deals way less damage (160) and doesn't even fire more shells.

You do realise the lefh has a really short cooldown compared to ML20? It also fires 10 salvo's with no vet. The ML20 fires 10 with vet 1, and has no counter barrage ability.

Let's not make this "one howi is fine, the other is not", because they are both OP atm.

You do realise the lefh has a really short cooldown compared to ML20? It also fires 10 salvo's with no vet. The ML20 fires 10 with vet 1, and has no counter barrage ability.

Let's not make this "one howi is fine, the other is not", because they are both OP atm.

And that shorter cooldown justifies 47% less damage per shell?

Honestly, the LeFH will never be OP simply because of its low damage and lack of targets. Do Allies rely on static buildings? Not really.

The ML-20 will be pretty effective vs OKW. Against OST it's fine because Stuka Dive Bombs counter it.

Counter barrage is better than no vet 1 ability but that's it.

Honestly, both howitzers are overpriced and only one of those might be too effective against one faction.

And that shorter cooldown justifies 47% less damage per shell?

Yes.

Yes.

I just found out that both have a cooldown of 90 seconds...

Without cas, artillery has no counter. Fuck em. Remove CAS, remove howitzers, remove other shit. I dont give a shit. artillery is gay as fuck.

I just found out that both have a cooldown of 90 seconds...

Me too, so I apologise. Indeed the LefH should be brought inline with the ML20 then... Or vice versa.

Without cas, artillery has no counter. Fuck em

Storm doc

will anyone make B4´s anymore?, since it looks like these 2 "weaker" howitzers are going be crucial to victory, or maybe people will just spam T34/76´s and Pz IV´s and nothing is really going to change