Login

russian armor

panzer 4 and volks need a high population

17 Jul 2015, 04:13 AM
#1
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

first of all, the two pz4 are overall superior tanks to the allies medium, but yet they all cost the same amount of population (12). It's a bit hard to get a numerical superiority over the axis if you're population locked.

In addition, the okw pz4 have more armor and higher vet as well, so its population need to be higher than the Ost pziv.

it should look something like this:

okw pziv: 16 pop
Ost pziv, jackson: 14 pop
sherman, su85 : 12
t34 76: 10

second, the volks and conscript have the same pop, but the volks have the schreck upgrade and the higher vet. The volks squad should take 8 pop. (7 pop if the schreck get replaced by faust).
17 Jul 2015, 04:25 AM
#2
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Considering the 85' just got bumped down to 130 fuel I'm just going to go ahead and say no thanks unless the fuel price for the OKW PIV dropped as well.
17 Jul 2015, 04:46 AM
#3
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

Considering the 85' just got bumped down to 130 fuel I'm just going to go ahead and say no thanks unless the fuel price for the OKW PIV dropped as well.


bump the t34 85 and E8 to 16 pop then. Since the OKW, t34 85, E8 are all basically "advanced" medium.
17 Jul 2015, 04:56 AM
#4
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

It would be nice to see Volks just get bumped up to 260 MP (adjusting pop cap and reinforce accordingly) and be made a mid ground between grens and Riflemen to give OKW some better early game while making it harder to spam them.

Lowering the cost of the OKW PIV to 125 fuel but increasing the popcap is a good idea, makes it so it takes up more space but isn't close to a Panther in price.

Tbh I'm just kinda at a loss of what to do with OKW atm, it's to anemic in 1's and 2's.
17 Jul 2015, 06:05 AM
#5
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Played some OKW yesterday. By god, Pz4 vet 4/5 is insane!
17 Jul 2015, 06:27 AM
#6
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

Volks should have the same Population like Riflemen while being far worse than them?
With all the nerfs they got I don't see any reason why they should be nerfed even further.

Unit costs are not calculated by their vetted state, but their initial state.
A vet 3 Su85 is also far more worth than 125 fuel, yet it's pop/costs are unaffected by that.
A JP4 at vet 5 is probably worth over 200 fuel, but when you buy it, it is not.
By that logic we can make all okw units or all units that have good vet even more expensive and more popcap intense.

I don't see why this is even an issue. Overwhelmed by OKW P4 spam? The popcap for the medium tanks is fine imo, no adjustment needed.


17 Jul 2015, 06:35 AM
#7
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

Volks should have the same Population like Riflemen while being far worse than them?
With all the nerfs they got I don't see any reason why they should be nerfed even further.

Unit costs are not calculated by their vetted state, but their initial state.
A vet 3 Su85 is also far more worth than 125 fuel, yet it's pop/costs are unaffected by that.
A JP4 at vet 5 is probably worth over 200 fuel, but when you buy it, it is not.
By that logic we can make all okw units or all units that have good vet even more expensive and more popcap intense.

I don't see why this is even an issue. Overwhelmed by OKW P4 spam? The popcap for the medium tanks is fine imo, no adjustment needed.




Because OKW is OP. Why? Because it's OKW. See the logic here?
17 Jul 2015, 06:46 AM
#8
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

The OKW is just the problem guys! Kappa
17 Jul 2015, 07:02 AM
#9
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

In addition with all the big changes that are going to come I have the feeling we should play the game a lot and see how everything works out before theory crafting new issues about units that are going to come (okw p4). The game simply has to be played a lot with the new changes to see how things work out.
17 Jul 2015, 09:09 AM
#10
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

No, OKW gets a fuel penalty. To compensate OKW gets vet 5 and thus better unit scaling.

Less vehicles on the field should mean that those vehicles are better.

No need to totally cripple OKW.
17 Jul 2015, 09:27 AM
#11
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

No, OKW gets a fuel penalty. To compensate OKW gets vet 5 and thus better unit scaling.

Less vehicles on the field should mean that those vehicles are better.

No need to totally cripple OKW.

Less vehicles on the field means just that, less vehicles on the field.

They have better scaling to make up for that as you've said, but out of the gate they are balanced for their cost just as any other unit in game.

You have less armor, but are rewarded greatly for preserving it.

175 panther is still 175 panther until you vet it to max.
17 Jul 2015, 09:39 AM
#12
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

The P4 is on the right position on it's price. Yes vet 4/5 it rapes every infantry you have, but therefore a OKW player has to preserve it as hell and that's no easy task, since it's armour isn't like a King Tiger. Still it will get raped by Jacksons and SU/85s from far.
17 Jul 2015, 09:55 AM
#13
avatar of HolyUnlyrical_Lyrics

Posts: 120

Permanently Banned
Considering the 85' just got bumped down to 130 fuel I'm just going to go ahead and say no thanks unless the fuel price for the OKW PIV dropped as well.


Seriously?
17 Jul 2015, 10:35 AM
#14
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930



Unit costs are not calculated by their vetted state, but their initial state.
A vet 3 Su85 is also far more worth than 125 fuel, yet it's pop/costs are unaffected by that.
A JP4 at vet 5 is probably worth over 200 fuel, but when you buy it, it is not.
By that logic we can make all okw units or all units that have good vet even more expensive and more popcap intense.



I don't see why this is even an issue. Overwhelmed by OKW P4 spam? The popcap for the medium tanks is fine imo, no adjustment needed.




The reason why the ost grenadier have 7 pop compared to the conscript's 6 pop is because the grenadier have access to lmg42. The same logic should be apply to volks as well.

The volks have the most powerful vet in the entire game. Their low pop requirement despite their scaling potential is one of the biggest reason why schreck blob exist.

Why should the pziv have the same population as the sherman 75 and t34 76 despite being superior? E8 and the t34 85 have higher pop because they are superior to the pz4. By the same logic the pz4 should have a higher pop than the sherman and t34 76


The P4 is on the right position on it's price. Yes vet 4/5 it rapes every infantry you have, but therefore a OKW player has to preserve it as hell and that's no easy task, since it's armour isn't like a King Tiger. Still it will get raped by Jacksons and SU/85s from far.


OKW snowball into unstoppable juggernaut in larger team. Putting a pop increase on their spammable unit limit the snow ball effect. Even in a 2v2 it's easily to hit the 100 pop, and in that case the okw' pop requirement allow them to snoweball.

yes, this is a nerf to the OKW's late game, and the faction needs it. Faction balance needs to stop thinking in terms of phase.
17 Jul 2015, 10:48 AM
#15
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Only stronk about the Pz4 starting is it's upgraded armour, which is the highest for a medium tank (If we consider a Panther as semi-heavy)
17 Jul 2015, 10:57 AM
#16
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

Increase volks pop cap??? Dude what are u smoking? Or just got rekt by OKW?
17 Jul 2015, 11:00 AM
#17
avatar of broodwarjc

Posts: 824

Increase volks pop cap??? Dude what are u smoking? Or just got rekt by OKW?


Ditto.
17 Jul 2015, 11:01 AM
#18
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

OKW snowball into unstoppable juggernaut in larger team. Putting a pop increase on their spammable unit limit the snow ball effect. Even in a 2v2 it's easily to hit the 100 pop, and in that case the okw' pop requirement allow them to snoweball.

yes, this is a nerf to the OKW's late game, and the faction needs it. Faction balance needs to stop thinking in terms of phase.
Definitely no.

If you preserve your units as OKW, you need to be rewarded. Blocking the ability to get further units, just destroys OKW. Currently if you lose one vehicle or a vetted unit, chances of a comeback are reduced significantly - more than with any other faction. With a lot of units you go "all in" as OKW (Early Flak HT, Walking Stuka, Panther, King Tiger).

Getting a reward for preserving that vet unit + having other units to support it and thus having a strong army, is the point behind the OKW design. That´s what you get for the resource penalty.
17 Jul 2015, 11:25 AM
#19
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jul 2015, 11:01 AMButcher
Currently if you lose one vehicle or a vetted unit, chances of a comeback are reduced significantly - more than with any other faction.


I wouldn't be so sure about it. We've had many great games that have shown us that OKW can endure and come back from base locks that no other army could recover from.

I'm absolutely not saying that losing squads/armor doesn't have impact on OKW, but if you do not wipe squads and wreck armor you'll be destroyed by vet5 snowball effect.

The only counterplay to superior vet5 units is to wipe them.

Now, I don't believe P4 or volks should get a popcap increase, if anything T34 which got cost decrease should also get pop decrease to 10.
17 Jul 2015, 11:32 AM
#20
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jul 2015, 11:25 AMKatitof
Now, I don't believe P4 or volks should get a popcap increase, if anything T34 which got cost decrease should also get pop decrease to 10.
I can agree with that. It´s obvious that the T-34/76 is supposed to be built in numbers with the fuel decrease to 80. Leaving it at the current popcap would contradict that purpose.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Livestreams

Sweden 0
Germany 803
Russian Federation 125
unknown 11

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

780 users are online: 780 guests
3 posts in the last 24h
3 posts in the last week
23 posts in the last month
Registered members: 48730
Welcome our newest member, johnsmith008
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM