first of all, the two pz4 are overall superior tanks to the allies medium, but yet they all cost the same amount of population (12). It's a bit hard to get a numerical superiority over the axis if you're population locked.
In addition, the okw pz4 have more armor and higher vet as well, so its population need to be higher than the Ost pziv.
it should look something like this:
okw pziv: 16 pop
Ost pziv, jackson: 14 pop
sherman, su85 : 12
t34 76: 10
second, the volks and conscript have the same pop, but the volks have the schreck upgrade and the higher vet. The volks squad should take 8 pop. (7 pop if the schreck get replaced by faust).
panzer 4 and volks need a high population
17 Jul 2015, 04:13 AM
#1
Posts: 1930
17 Jul 2015, 04:25 AM
#2
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Considering the 85' just got bumped down to 130 fuel I'm just going to go ahead and say no thanks unless the fuel price for the OKW PIV dropped as well.
17 Jul 2015, 04:46 AM
#3
Posts: 1930
Considering the 85' just got bumped down to 130 fuel I'm just going to go ahead and say no thanks unless the fuel price for the OKW PIV dropped as well.
bump the t34 85 and E8 to 16 pop then. Since the OKW, t34 85, E8 are all basically "advanced" medium.
17 Jul 2015, 04:56 AM
#4
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
It would be nice to see Volks just get bumped up to 260 MP (adjusting pop cap and reinforce accordingly) and be made a mid ground between grens and Riflemen to give OKW some better early game while making it harder to spam them.
Lowering the cost of the OKW PIV to 125 fuel but increasing the popcap is a good idea, makes it so it takes up more space but isn't close to a Panther in price.
Tbh I'm just kinda at a loss of what to do with OKW atm, it's to anemic in 1's and 2's.
Lowering the cost of the OKW PIV to 125 fuel but increasing the popcap is a good idea, makes it so it takes up more space but isn't close to a Panther in price.
Tbh I'm just kinda at a loss of what to do with OKW atm, it's to anemic in 1's and 2's.
17 Jul 2015, 06:05 AM
#5
Posts: 1653
Played some OKW yesterday. By god, Pz4 vet 4/5 is insane!
17 Jul 2015, 06:27 AM
#6
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Volks should have the same Population like Riflemen while being far worse than them?
With all the nerfs they got I don't see any reason why they should be nerfed even further.
Unit costs are not calculated by their vetted state, but their initial state.
A vet 3 Su85 is also far more worth than 125 fuel, yet it's pop/costs are unaffected by that.
A JP4 at vet 5 is probably worth over 200 fuel, but when you buy it, it is not.
By that logic we can make all okw units or all units that have good vet even more expensive and more popcap intense.
I don't see why this is even an issue. Overwhelmed by OKW P4 spam? The popcap for the medium tanks is fine imo, no adjustment needed.
With all the nerfs they got I don't see any reason why they should be nerfed even further.
Unit costs are not calculated by their vetted state, but their initial state.
A vet 3 Su85 is also far more worth than 125 fuel, yet it's pop/costs are unaffected by that.
A JP4 at vet 5 is probably worth over 200 fuel, but when you buy it, it is not.
By that logic we can make all okw units or all units that have good vet even more expensive and more popcap intense.
I don't see why this is even an issue. Overwhelmed by OKW P4 spam? The popcap for the medium tanks is fine imo, no adjustment needed.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
17 Jul 2015, 06:35 AM
#7
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Volks should have the same Population like Riflemen while being far worse than them?
With all the nerfs they got I don't see any reason why they should be nerfed even further.
Unit costs are not calculated by their vetted state, but their initial state.
A vet 3 Su85 is also far more worth than 125 fuel, yet it's pop/costs are unaffected by that.
A JP4 at vet 5 is probably worth over 200 fuel, but when you buy it, it is not.
By that logic we can make all okw units or all units that have good vet even more expensive and more popcap intense.
I don't see why this is even an issue. Overwhelmed by OKW P4 spam? The popcap for the medium tanks is fine imo, no adjustment needed.
Because OKW is OP. Why? Because it's OKW. See the logic here?
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
17 Jul 2015, 06:46 AM
#8
Posts: 1653
The OKW is just the problem guys! Kappa
17 Jul 2015, 07:02 AM
#9
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
In addition with all the big changes that are going to come I have the feeling we should play the game a lot and see how everything works out before theory crafting new issues about units that are going to come (okw p4). The game simply has to be played a lot with the new changes to see how things work out.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
17 Jul 2015, 09:09 AM
#10
Posts: 978
No, OKW gets a fuel penalty. To compensate OKW gets vet 5 and thus better unit scaling.
Less vehicles on the field should mean that those vehicles are better.
No need to totally cripple OKW.
Less vehicles on the field should mean that those vehicles are better.
No need to totally cripple OKW.
17 Jul 2015, 09:27 AM
#11
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
No, OKW gets a fuel penalty. To compensate OKW gets vet 5 and thus better unit scaling.
Less vehicles on the field should mean that those vehicles are better.
No need to totally cripple OKW.
Less vehicles on the field means just that, less vehicles on the field.
They have better scaling to make up for that as you've said, but out of the gate they are balanced for their cost just as any other unit in game.
You have less armor, but are rewarded greatly for preserving it.
175 panther is still 175 panther until you vet it to max.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
17 Jul 2015, 09:39 AM
#12
Posts: 1653
The P4 is on the right position on it's price. Yes vet 4/5 it rapes every infantry you have, but therefore a OKW player has to preserve it as hell and that's no easy task, since it's armour isn't like a King Tiger. Still it will get raped by Jacksons and SU/85s from far.
17 Jul 2015, 09:55 AM
#13
Posts: 120
Permanently BannedConsidering the 85' just got bumped down to 130 fuel I'm just going to go ahead and say no thanks unless the fuel price for the OKW PIV dropped as well.
Seriously?
Marshall, sounds like an SOS...
Holy wack, unlyrical lyrics Andre, you're fuckin' right...
To the rapmobile, let's go...
Holy wack, unlyrical lyrics Andre, you're fuckin' right...
To the rapmobile, let's go...
17 Jul 2015, 10:35 AM
#14
Posts: 1930
Unit costs are not calculated by their vetted state, but their initial state.
A vet 3 Su85 is also far more worth than 125 fuel, yet it's pop/costs are unaffected by that.
A JP4 at vet 5 is probably worth over 200 fuel, but when you buy it, it is not.
By that logic we can make all okw units or all units that have good vet even more expensive and more popcap intense.
I don't see why this is even an issue. Overwhelmed by OKW P4 spam? The popcap for the medium tanks is fine imo, no adjustment needed.
The reason why the ost grenadier have 7 pop compared to the conscript's 6 pop is because the grenadier have access to lmg42. The same logic should be apply to volks as well.
The volks have the most powerful vet in the entire game. Their low pop requirement despite their scaling potential is one of the biggest reason why schreck blob exist.
Why should the pziv have the same population as the sherman 75 and t34 76 despite being superior? E8 and the t34 85 have higher pop because they are superior to the pz4. By the same logic the pz4 should have a higher pop than the sherman and t34 76
The P4 is on the right position on it's price. Yes vet 4/5 it rapes every infantry you have, but therefore a OKW player has to preserve it as hell and that's no easy task, since it's armour isn't like a King Tiger. Still it will get raped by Jacksons and SU/85s from far.
OKW snowball into unstoppable juggernaut in larger team. Putting a pop increase on their spammable unit limit the snow ball effect. Even in a 2v2 it's easily to hit the 100 pop, and in that case the okw' pop requirement allow them to snoweball.
yes, this is a nerf to the OKW's late game, and the faction needs it. Faction balance needs to stop thinking in terms of phase.
17 Jul 2015, 10:48 AM
#15
Posts: 1653
Only stronk about the Pz4 starting is it's upgraded armour, which is the highest for a medium tank (If we consider a Panther as semi-heavy)
17 Jul 2015, 10:57 AM
#16
Posts: 1617
Increase volks pop cap??? Dude what are u smoking? Or just got rekt by OKW?
17 Jul 2015, 11:00 AM
#17
Posts: 824
Increase volks pop cap??? Dude what are u smoking? Or just got rekt by OKW?
Ditto.
Youtube Streaming: https://www.youtube.com/@broodwarjc1517/streams
17 Jul 2015, 11:01 AM
#18
Posts: 1217
OKW snowball into unstoppable juggernaut in larger team. Putting a pop increase on their spammable unit limit the snow ball effect. Even in a 2v2 it's easily to hit the 100 pop, and in that case the okw' pop requirement allow them to snoweball.Definitely no.
yes, this is a nerf to the OKW's late game, and the faction needs it. Faction balance needs to stop thinking in terms of phase.
If you preserve your units as OKW, you need to be rewarded. Blocking the ability to get further units, just destroys OKW. Currently if you lose one vehicle or a vetted unit, chances of a comeback are reduced significantly - more than with any other faction. With a lot of units you go "all in" as OKW (Early Flak HT, Walking Stuka, Panther, King Tiger).
Getting a reward for preserving that vet unit + having other units to support it and thus having a strong army, is the point behind the OKW design. That´s what you get for the resource penalty.
17 Jul 2015, 11:25 AM
#19
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Currently if you lose one vehicle or a vetted unit, chances of a comeback are reduced significantly - more than with any other faction.
I wouldn't be so sure about it. We've had many great games that have shown us that OKW can endure and come back from base locks that no other army could recover from.
I'm absolutely not saying that losing squads/armor doesn't have impact on OKW, but if you do not wipe squads and wreck armor you'll be destroyed by vet5 snowball effect.
The only counterplay to superior vet5 units is to wipe them.
Now, I don't believe P4 or volks should get a popcap increase, if anything T34 which got cost decrease should also get pop decrease to 10.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
17 Jul 2015, 11:32 AM
#20
Posts: 1217
Now, I don't believe P4 or volks should get a popcap increase, if anything T34 which got cost decrease should also get pop decrease to 10.I can agree with that. It´s obvious that the T-34/76 is supposed to be built in numbers with the fuel decrease to 80. Leaving it at the current popcap would contradict that purpose.
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