Balance Data Since The Patch

Can we not make this another Alex bash fest, despite what you might think of him? Please.

http://www.coh2.org/replay/33407/true-nature-of-alexzandvar-and-m3-clown-car-6-wipes/page/1#post_id316046

I still remember the first time I watched this.

Not taking sides here, but he derped out in one match - who cares.

Also: can you two maybe hate on each other via PM?

This times 100, it's reeeeally hard to take discussions seriously when half the people talking in them are using anecdotal evidence revolving around something behind good/OP when it could be them repeating a mistake.

For instance; you could make the AT strafe on CAS sound an air raid siren every time It came in but a certain quality of player would still refuse to move their shit. Bad micro and unit positioning being punished should be a priority, same with rewarding good micro and unit positioning.

But you have to agree what Samich and Tatatala, at least to a degree right? This game has a very small playerbase and comparing the 1% here with LoL or SC 2, games I am very familiar, is silly. You have to balance the game in a way that attracts new people, and CoH 2 needs a lot more people.

Can we not make this another Alex bash fest, despite what you might think of him? Please.

The irony of this statement is compounding.

But you have to agree what Samich and Tatatala, at least to a degree right? This game has a very small playerbase and comparing the 1% here with LoL or SC 2, games I am very familiar, is silly. You have to balance the game in a way that attracts new people, and CoH 2 needs a lot more people.

That's why you work on quality of life things. Improving the game engine and cover mechanics, fix squad bunching, MG's facing in buildings, bug fixing. Making things fun for everyone isn't hard to do when balancing.

Ostheer is the easiest faction to play because it's the most straight forward, personally the game would be much better off if all teching was linear and call in's didn't exist. Commanders just added more units to your buildings.

okay guys can we not go offtopic whether to bash someone or not lets try to stay on topic i know you guys are more than capable even if it takes a tiny bit of retraint. I have accordinly invised a whole bunch of posts.

/back on topic

damn 4v4 is still imbalanced as heck

This is it.

The only Stat we should care about for team games is top 200 vs 200 AT ONLY. Anything else is open to many more factors than a balanced AT match.

However:

1) Not that many people play AT v Random (would like to see some stats on that if we can get them)

Yes ok the usual suspects will drive by and say "Get friends noob" but that's beside the point. But then you are in "Just about any game is fun if played with friends" territory, says nothing about the quality or balance of the game


2) Of those that do play AT, they don't always play with the same people and don't necessarily get ranked.

You may check my player card for evidence of this.

Despite all my 4v4 games I am ranked with I believe only two teams


3) The great advantage of AT over random means the win proportion for AT is very high


4) As a result of all the above you can break top 200 AT on or soon after your tenth game.

I know that, because I've done it


5) AT has access to synergies that don't work in random, and are essentially fringe "exploits" <Cough - fuel drop cough>


So, if the idea is to balance around the best players, you won't get them in 4v4 AT, because I will estimate that 95% of getting ranked as 4v4 AT is playing lots of games rather than anything else

Your perceived notions of balance can be completely wrong if you aren't a good player.

As opposed to the ideas of top players like Quentin and that Chinese gentleman whose name eludes me who are clearly too awesome for our tiny minds to comprehend.

Nailed it. The attitude of "well, only top XX skilled players count towards balancing" is doing nothing for the over all health of the title.

"Yeah but if we have a perfectly balanced game for e-sports we'll get millions of viewers and everything will be awesome"


Not sure why millions of people are going to want to watch a game that isn't fun or accessible for them to play, maybe I should try hyperventilating into a bag full of paint whilst chanting 'ESPORTS' to myself whilst banging my head against the wall until it does

Starcraft 2 balances at the top. Total War balances at the top. Dawn of war balances at the top. CSGO, Dota 2, LoL, literally every game in existence that is a good strategy game or successful e-sport is balanced from the top.

Jesus, get a grip. Show me a successful e-sport or strategy game that balances for the 99%. You wont find them.

The link posted a few weeks/months back said the top 11.2%

http://www.coh2.org/topic/34950/why-riot-balances-lol-for-higher-tier-players


That's basically everybody who cares enough about this game enough to post here (except Alex )

there's a difference between balancing for low level players and listening to bad players who whine on the forums. Making units easier to use or less punishing helps new players more easily get into the game and doesn't take listening to every noob who just started playing the game.

The most balanced CoH1 was ever at was when a patch was developed with the top players input. That's what people mean when they talk about balancing around the 1%.

Which I'm starting to think was a terrible mistake because it created an belief that COH2 would be balanced in the same way

You sure ain't the first person to be harassed by TAB let me tell you

Don't blame me I voted for Kodos and I don't feel the urge to support anyone else in their internet warring just because I wear the same clantags

I find it funny when people compare coh's top 1% to starcraft and the like's top 1%. Those games' "top 1 %" ranges in the 1000s while ours is only probably ranges in the 100s if not less. Much bigger sample size.

Besides coh2s biggest struggle is attempting is becoming popular, not creating a competitive playerbase. A competitive playerbase will naturally arise when there are enough players. It's not going to magically appear by pandering to the already dedicated players.

I already did Handel, so I'm not sure I can topthat


So have

+1 to infinity billion

"Yeah but if we have a perfectly balanced game for e-sports we'll get millions of viewers and everything will be awesome"


Not sure why millions of people are going to want to watch a game that isn't fun or accessible for them to play, maybe I should try hyperventilating into a bag full of paint whilst chanting 'ESPORTS' to myself whilst banging my head against the wall until it does

Define "accessible"?
Is AoE accessible?
Is SC2 accessible?
Is C&C accessible?
Grey goo certainly is accessible and pretty balanced if you ask me.
The three before it? Well, C&C isn't rocket science either, but AoE and SC2 aren't that accessible.
SC2 most certainly isn't accessible, yet millions play it and its balanced around the 1% top players and its quite e-sporty.

CoH2 doesn't have economical macro management, you don't have to count and manage army of workers, you don't have constant base expanding or ever going unit production. It doesn't have unavoidable abilities that obliterate whole armies, doesn't have dozens of units you need to constantly watch over and micro, doesn't require 300+ APM to be competitive, most of coh2 top players do not even use control groups.

I'd say coh2 is one of the most accessible RTS games out there, it becomes hard when you want to get into actual mechanics, but other then that its pretty logical, you won't kill a tank with rifle, you won't cap a point with vehicles.

CoH2 is also one of the most entertaining RTS games to watch, because its nature means you'll never know who wins, situations that result in GG in all other RTS games, in coh2 you can pull a comeback, that keeps people interested.

CoH2 is one of the most accessible RTS games out there, it doesn't even take that much to master it, you don't have to be tactical genius, or korean clicker to be good at it. Just look at Quentin, he isn't brightest bulb when it comes to understanding the game or its balance, yet he is one of the top players.

But there is one more completely mandatory thing that relic completely ignores.

Marketing.

No game will become "accessible" or "e-sporty" if you do NOT actively engage with the community, organize tournaments, advertise the game-show to people that you've made this game and show them that you want them to play and have fun with them.

As opposed to the ideas of top players like Quentin and that Chinese gentleman whose name eludes me who are clearly too awesome for our tiny minds to comprehend.

Quentin being totally incomprehensible doesn't mean all top players are.

Which I'm starting to think was a terrible mistake because it created an belief that COH2 would be balanced in the same way

You mean it created the belief Relic could demonstrate competence, yes.

Don't blame me I voted for Kodos and I don't feel the urge to support anyone else in their internet warring just because I wear the same clantags

I don't blame anyone in general

I'm not in fundamental disagreement with you, because neither of us think balance is what stops e-sports.

Quentin being totally incomprehensible doesn't mean all top players are.

No, but it's a Sturmtiger shot of reality into the blob yelling "Balance around the top players"

Fun Fact : in order for a game to be "esports" it does not have to be perfectly balanced.

You know what nit needs? Money. Money brings competition and competition brings viewers, which in turns bring players.

Now, where did that 18000$ dollar ESL tourney go?