Login

russian armor

"Tech Tree Complete" awards a la Konigstiger

22 Jun 2015, 14:16 PM
#21
avatar of HolyUnlyrical_Lyrics

Posts: 120

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2015, 14:04 PMFul4n0


aren´t OKW units prices adjusted to that fuel penalty???? just asking, I´m not sure about it.


With a fuel penalty and the need to tech fully to get it, you must have ideal circumstances to get the required 260 fuel to get the unit next to the full teching costs. I find it to be to expensive for its impact.

Double panther is a more viable option than a KT, that alone says something about the KT itself and the requirements to get it.
22 Jun 2015, 14:20 PM
#22
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2015, 14:04 PMFul4n0


aren´t OKW units prices adjusted to that fuel penalty???? just asking, I´m not sure about it.

Why would they?
Isn't panther cost an answer in itself?

OKW fuel penalty is a limiting factor for armor presence, it doesn't mean you make up for it in cost with other resources.
22 Jun 2015, 16:05 PM
#23
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1

If we consider the fuel penalty for OKW, than we can conclude that going KT is even less viable than going double Panthers. You only need two tech structures for panthers, not all.


Thats a good thing. Heavy tanks shouldn't always be viable. They should have their uses, but have significant downsides. This is also why I like the design of the tiger much more than the design of the IS2.

Heavies should not be something you see every game, and changing the KTs cost to make it more viable in every game is a bad thing. It performs as a 260fu unit, and is timed to come in very late game, to encourage players to build supporting armor first (JP, PV).
22 Jun 2015, 16:21 PM
#24
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

Thanks for the input guys. Also for the record I'm pretty sure that nondoc units< doc units of the same price.

Seeing as how everyone can't get a King Tiger- and Halftracks aren't really a good carrot- maybe a global upgrade that unlocks once everything is researched. It would be a lot like the Panzer Elite Sprint.

Soviets-Conscripts get 1 DP per squad, cheaper, or something.

USF- all infantry gets passive sprint.

Ostheer- Pionior repair rate increases drastically.

Spitballing here for the mod I'm making sometime in Winter.
22 Jun 2015, 16:38 PM
#25
avatar of Sikko
Patrion 14

Posts: 113

Make full tech tree necessary to call in heavies. Boom.
22 Jun 2015, 17:19 PM
#26
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

But USF.

That is a good solution though,
22 Jun 2015, 18:58 PM
#27
avatar of Sikko
Patrion 14

Posts: 113

Just wait until tomorrows patch. Maybe there will be something to bind in this systems for the Americans too. ;)
22 Jun 2015, 19:09 PM
#28
avatar of HolyUnlyrical_Lyrics

Posts: 120

Permanently Banned


Thats a good thing. Heavy tanks shouldn't always be viable. They should have their uses, but have significant downsides. This is also why I like the design of the tiger much more than the design of the IS2.

Heavies should not be something you see every game, and changing the KTs cost to make it more viable in every game is a bad thing. It performs as a 260fu unit, and is timed to come in very late game, to encourage players to build supporting armor first (JP, PV).


A unit should be viable, the King tiger is not.
22 Jun 2015, 19:20 PM
#29
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

!!! It can't be!
22 Jun 2015, 19:24 PM
#30
avatar of Wygrif

Posts: 278



A unit should be viable, the King tiger is not.


King Tiger is in a good place IMO. It's the first order optimal strat for OKWs late game. Very good power for the micro required, but better players have better options.
22 Jun 2015, 19:32 PM
#31
avatar of Wygrif

Posts: 278

Thanks for the input guys. Also for the record I'm pretty sure that nondoc units< doc units of the same price.

Seeing as how everyone can't get a King Tiger- and Halftracks aren't really a good carrot- maybe a global upgrade that unlocks once everything is researched. It would be a lot like the Panzer Elite Sprint.

Soviets-Conscripts get 1 DP per squad, cheaper, or something.

USF- all infantry gets passive sprint.

Ostheer- Pionior repair rate increases drastically.

Spitballing here for the mod I'm making sometime in Winter.



If this is for a mod, I'd say that the endgame should be the army's specialty. Probably artillery for the USF (a priest or a 105, maybe). Numbers for the Sovs so rapid conscription or maybe a pop cap boost. for Ost, a blitz ability? Rapid decap plus a bonus fighting units in disconnected territory? Or maybe buy able veterancy?
22 Jun 2015, 19:33 PM
#32
avatar of HolyUnlyrical_Lyrics

Posts: 120

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2015, 19:24 PMWygrif


King Tiger is in a good place IMO. It's the first order optimal strat for OKWs late game. Very good power for the micro required, but better players have better options.


Nah, it is not worth its cost. I will keep saying it, rather have 2 or 3 panthers for that matter. Had a game tonight were I decided to go for it again, regretted it as soon as it got swarmed by 85s.
22 Jun 2015, 19:35 PM
#33
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053



Nah, it is not worth its cost. I will keep saying it, rather have 2 or 3 panthers for that matter. Had a game tonight were I decided to go for it again, regretted it as soon as it got swarmed by 85s.


It is not a unit where it is useful every game...

Which wouldnt be very creative if it was.
22 Jun 2015, 21:25 PM
#34
avatar of HolyUnlyrical_Lyrics

Posts: 120

Permanently Banned


It is not a unit where it is useful every game...

Which wouldnt be very creative if it was.


Haha, explain to me why the t34-85 is then.
22 Jun 2015, 21:31 PM
#35
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

Because it doesn't need tech. If it required extensive tech it wouldn't be useful every game either.
22 Jun 2015, 21:45 PM
#36
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1



Haha, explain to me why the t34-85 is then.


The T34/85 is a broken unit thanks to not requiring tech. Just about everyone agrees that something needs to be done with it. You can't compare a unit to a broken unit and consider the unbroken unit UP. Thats not how it works.

Also, 2 panthers cost 175*2 = 350 fu. 1 KT = 260 + 50 = 310 fu, so 1 KT is cheaper than 2 panthers, while also giving you access to all of your tech. It is a decision that you make as a player. The Panther is useful as offensive AT for me, but requires supplemental sources due to its low DPS. The KT is a more defensive unit that wipes infantry squads and wrecks any armor, at a shorter range. The KT also has more armor (same armor as IS2 which everyone agrees iss hard to pen) and more HP, allowing it to stay on the field longer.
22 Jun 2015, 22:03 PM
#37
avatar of HolyUnlyrical_Lyrics

Posts: 120

Permanently Banned


The T34/85 is a broken unit thanks to not requiring tech. Just about everyone agrees that something needs to be done with it. You can't compare a unit to a broken unit and consider the unbroken unit UP. Thats not how it works.

Also, 2 panthers cost 175*2 = 350 fu. 1 KT = 260 + 50 = 310 fu, so 1 KT is cheaper than 2 panthers, while also giving you access to all of your tech. It is a decision that you make as a player. The Panther is useful as offensive AT for me, but requires supplemental sources due to its low DPS. The KT is a more defensive unit that wipes infantry squads and wrecks any armor, at a shorter range. The KT also has more armor (same armor as IS2 which everyone agrees iss hard to pen) and more HP, allowing it to stay on the field longer.


yes t34-85s are broken as hell.

Where did I ever stated the KT was underpowered? (did you mean underperforming by UP?) I simply don't think the tank is worth its price when you can get 2 panthers for roughly the same price far quicker than you can the KT. Two panthers are just more effective and cost effective as a whole. KT is only viable if you are winning and have the resources to get it with ease. Rushing for it is a fools move in my opinion.

To get KT you need 50+50+80+260= 440, you need all 3 buildings. That is 260 plus 180. For 40 more total fuel, 130 + 175 + 175, you get 2 powerfull tanks. That alone makes two panthers way more viable than one KT that will get swarmed and marked targeted.

But again, that is my opinion. I will never go KT again, unless it gets altered so it actually is worth it
22 Jun 2015, 22:11 PM
#38
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1



Where did I ever stated the KT was underpowered? (did you mean underperforming by UP?) I simply don't think the tank is worth its price when you can get 2 panthers for roughly the same price far quicker than you can the KT. Two panthers are just more effective and cost effective as a whole. KT is only viable if you are winning and have the resources to get it with ease. Rushing for it is a fools move in my opinion.

To get KT you need 50+50+80+260= 440, you need all 3 buildings. That is 260 plus 180..


So don't rush it. Use it to supplement yourself later. Its a good thing that rushing for a KT is a bad thing. Build a JP4, then a KT lategame. KT + JP is the best combo in game, as it can deal with all threats, tanks and infantry.

Either way, getting 2 panthers is an inefficient use of resources. 1 PV + 1 JP4 will give you more AT DPS as well as more range, while still having a meatshield.

I was counting how much the KT costs vs. buying 2 panthers, the tech cost to tech to panther is within the cost of the KT, so the price will cancel out. If it makes you feel better:

KT: 50+80+260= 390
2 PV: 80+175+175= 440
(OKW starts with 50 fu)
22 Jun 2015, 22:14 PM
#39
avatar of HolyUnlyrical_Lyrics

Posts: 120

Permanently Banned


So don't rush it. Use it to supplement yourself later. Its a good thing that rushing for a KT is a bad thing. Build a JP4, then a KT lategame. KT + JP is the best combo in game, as it can deal with all threats, tanks and infantry.

Either way, getting 2 panthers is an inefficient use of resources. 1 PV + 1 JP4 will give you more AT DPS as well as more range, while still having a meatshield.

I was counting how much the KT costs vs. buying 2 panthers, the tech cost to tech to panther is within the cost of the KT, so the price will cancel out. If it makes you feel better:

KT: 50+80+260= 390
2 PV: 80+175+175= 440
(OKW starts with 50 fu)


I understand your points and if this is reason enough for you to get a KT, go ahead. I won't get it, I rather have 2 panthers that are highly mobile. A JP4? I wouldn't even bother, rather go with another Panther, can take on infantry with its pintle mounted machine gun. Imagine if you have 3 of them, oh the effectiveness.

In its current form, the KT is an inefficient use of your resources. It is not viable, but again, my opinion.
23 Jun 2015, 08:10 AM
#40
avatar of Ful4n0

Posts: 345

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2015, 14:20 PMKatitof

Why would they?
Isn't panther cost an answer in itself?

OKW fuel penalty is a limiting factor for armor presence, it doesn't mean you make up for it in cost with other resources.


My point is that if OKW trucks have cheaper costs because the FUEL penalty, and units has reduced price because the fuel penalty, then, in the end, they are balanced and units are not more expensive for OKW than for any other faction, thus, no advantage at all for others faction, so it is as hard for OKW as for any other faction to field that unit.


But because I was not sure abouit, I just asked for confirmation.


That´s all.


Sorry, my english skills are so low....trying to improve them every day.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

882 users are online: 882 guests
0 post in the last 24h
7 posts in the last week
34 posts in the last month
Registered members: 49120
Welcome our newest member, truvioll94
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM