I'm kinda surprised there's no thread about them. Putting it simply - I know the upgrade costs 120 ammo for both, but for what they do it's still ridiculous. I mean, they simple RAPE everything on retreat (fucked up retreat pathing is another thing) and as I've noticed 1v1 meta is now about abusing the hell out of them before tanks emerge.
If a soviet player has some good micro then Clown car is simply fucking up entire t1 for Ostheer, because bugging retreat pathing + horrendous damage on retreat = roflstomp.
On the contrary, halftrack is kinda the same but being in t2, it evens things a bit. Still - conscripts have it even worse than Grens with their AT. They have to come really close with their AT nades and that means certain death.
That makes 1v1 really boring, because 70% of my games are racing to those units.
Thoughts?
Halftracks/Clown Cars + Flamethrowers
8 Jun 2013, 00:15 AM
#1
Posts: 7
8 Jun 2013, 01:57 AM
#2
Posts: 1620 | Subs: 2
It's weird that Relic didn't learn the lesson from Kangaroo Carriers that this sort of thing is silly and uninteresting.
Signature by Ginnungagap
8 Jun 2013, 03:07 AM
#3
2 
Posts: 559
It's weird that Relic didn't learn the lesson from Kangaroo Carriers that this sort of thing is silly and uninteresting.
Amen to that.
8 Jun 2013, 04:07 AM
#4
Posts: 934
Yeah I don't like this style of play much either, a little bit tasteless in my opinion.
My conclusion of what to blame in this circumstance is the illogical reasoning as to why they removed the CoH1 mines which each lay for 25 ammo. It would prevent this just instant retreat and follow the unit forever, which most times if its a long distance the squad is dead as you described.
25 ammo mines would force a minesweeper (1 less conscript early game) or alternatively create a higher risk to follow a unit indefinitely down a road. 60 munition for a single mine to handle a single light vechile is to much and hence why its easier to rely on fausts(avoidable if range maintained) or hold out til AC.
My conclusion of what to blame in this circumstance is the illogical reasoning as to why they removed the CoH1 mines which each lay for 25 ammo. It would prevent this just instant retreat and follow the unit forever, which most times if its a long distance the squad is dead as you described.
25 ammo mines would force a minesweeper (1 less conscript early game) or alternatively create a higher risk to follow a unit indefinitely down a road. 60 munition for a single mine to handle a single light vechile is to much and hence why its easier to rely on fausts(avoidable if range maintained) or hold out til AC.
8 Jun 2013, 06:53 AM
#5
17 Posts: 2838 | Subs: 3
I completely agree with the OP. Flames are seriously broken at the moment. The ability to annihilate full-health, retreating squads is a problem. I feel like a big nerf to the damage done to retreating squads would fix much of the problem. There are counters (Ostheer can get a scout car and Soviets can use AT grenades in combination with a ZiS, for example), but if half of your army gets wiped out in the first five minutes, you're crippled.
Also, I've had panzerfausts that either missed the halftrack or did no damage to it. Has anyone else had this happen? Is it a bug or a feature?
Also, I've had panzerfausts that either missed the halftrack or did no damage to it. Has anyone else had this happen? Is it a bug or a feature?
9 Jun 2013, 11:16 AM
#6
Posts: 393
This is indeed just an incredibly gimmicky way to play. Not to mention that if your opponent gets a lot of grens you transition into sniper + scout car.
sig by tricky 
9 Jun 2013, 11:58 AM
#7
Posts: 2779
Clown car and HT should become only for transportation, that's all
Sniper car = autowin against Ostheer until he learn to build an AC, but you can always use the clown car to lure AC into mines and guards anyway
Sniper car = autowin against Ostheer until he learn to build an AC, but you can always use the clown car to lure AC into mines and guards anyway
9 Jun 2013, 12:48 PM
#8
Posts: 74
Yeah I don't like this style of play much either, a little bit tasteless in my opinion.
My conclusion of what to blame in this circumstance is the illogical reasoning as to why they removed the CoH1 mines which each lay for 25 ammo.
Yep, no reason to remove the current mines, just add a 25 muni mine for each faction, effective at taking out light vehicles (heavy damage crit?) and ok vs infantry.
The current mine for soviets would probably be needed to be made 40-45 muni and damage increased accordingly so it can be effective late game vs tanks
Another thing I don't really like is that mines don't seem to suppress troops like Vcoh which means they aren't as good at dealing with flanks, which is surely one of the main reasons for mines?!
At the moment there is no justification in early mines, even on these maps which are pretty choke heavy!! Maybe they felt they needed to decrease the effectivness of mines due to the style of maps in the new game? I don't know....
10 Jun 2013, 03:19 AM
#9
Posts: 101
+1 it's sad that they did fixed so many things in vcoh, then made an excellent game with dow2 ret (which didnt have these abusive ideas, imo one of the most balanced games ever until the very last patch which went full retard), but now brings back the stuff we all said we didnt want
transport only plz relic
transport only plz relic
10 Jun 2013, 21:47 PM
#10
Posts: 182
I believe a fair fix to this would be allow the scout cars to transport troops. Snipers cannot be in the scout car at all, and flamethrowers can only shoot when the car is stationary.
Anyone notice the flamethrower engies only shoot while still now? Well, apply that when they're in the scout car and then you can have kiting involved and not just these engineer gangster drive-by's. Might work, might not, either way it's way better than what it is now in my opinion. Would be nice to see regular mines for germans too :/
Anyone notice the flamethrower engies only shoot while still now? Well, apply that when they're in the scout car and then you can have kiting involved and not just these engineer gangster drive-by's. Might work, might not, either way it's way better than what it is now in my opinion. Would be nice to see regular mines for germans too :/
11 Jun 2013, 00:40 AM
#11
Posts: 881
I just met M3's big brother, the M5. With 2 squads able to shoot from it. 
11 Jun 2013, 03:21 AM
#12
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
Yeah I don't like this style of play much either, a little bit tasteless in my opinion.
My conclusion of what to blame in this circumstance is the illogical reasoning as to why they removed the CoH1 mines which each lay for 25 ammo. It would prevent this just instant retreat and follow the unit forever, which most times if its a long distance the squad is dead as you described.
25 ammo mines would force a minesweeper (1 less conscript early game) or alternatively create a higher risk to follow a unit indefinitely down a road. 60 munition for a single mine to handle a single light vechile is to much and hence why its easier to rely on fausts(avoidable if range maintained) or hold out til AC.
CoH1 mines were far too cost effective imo, I like the concept of choosing between anti personel or AT, but the German S minefield does need some reworking. 25muni had the potential to outright kill support units, destroy engine on T3 units, damage engine on tanks, and stop flanking units (and sometimes wounding them so badly they die with a little bit of focus fire). They should just nerf Wehr flame HT and change the Russian SC so it works like a more powerful Jeep instead of a Bren carrier.
Many top tier players that were proficient with US and Wehr had a higher W/L with Wehr because of cheap mines deciding games. You can be good at flanking, but it just wasn't viable to have a sweeper leading every flanking unit and sometimes you were just unfortunate enough to take all the routes covered by mines when you made big pushes and got really screwed over.
11 Jun 2013, 07:12 AM
#13
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedRemove both M3 and M5s ability to have garrison fire from within it.
There is currently nothing, either in cost or assymetric balance that justifies them having an open garrison.
German mines are too expensive in comparison, especially weighed against the Engies demo-pack, for which there is no Ostheer Pio asstmetric equivalent.
People are seriously underplaying the demopack. When placed at entrances of buildings or on bridgheads (or other approaches) it is absolutely devastating.
There is currently nothing, either in cost or assymetric balance that justifies them having an open garrison.
German mines are too expensive in comparison, especially weighed against the Engies demo-pack, for which there is no Ostheer Pio asstmetric equivalent.
People are seriously underplaying the demopack. When placed at entrances of buildings or on bridgheads (or other approaches) it is absolutely devastating.
11 Jun 2013, 08:14 AM
#14
Posts: 391
What about making the faust animation/fire time faster?
11 Jun 2013, 08:19 AM
#15
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedWhat about making the faust animation/fire time faster?
Would break AT nade/Faust current symmetry.
The problem is the AP potential of the armor of the enemy you are aiming to engine disable.
A PIV or Stug has very little AP potential, even when MG upgraded, whereas the T34 currently seriosuly rips infantry a new one, without any munition upgrade.
11 Jun 2013, 09:27 AM
#16
Posts: 88
OP +1
as long as this isnt fixed, alongside with panzergren spamm effectivenes, the game wont get interesting
as long as this isnt fixed, alongside with panzergren spamm effectivenes, the game wont get interesting
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