What makes a balanced map

The more and more I play this game the more and more I think there is almost no real way to make a balanced map. I think this is the major reason we get maps like sitar, stalingrad and misk. With this is mind what do you all think a the key factors that are need to make a map balanced?

It should not favor any specific faction or starting point.

It should not favor any specific faction or starting point.

how do you do that? How do you make a map that is equal for a faction that is all close range imf that have no long range damage, and a faction that is all long range damage, with little closes range abilities?

What a good map should have:

-Multiple flanking routes, just don't make them all of them accessible at the start. Force people to blow up things to make new entrances.

-Multiple fuel or munitions points dispersed around the map evenly so if you can't take one side you can at least take the other.

-A defensible cut-off that belongs to the closest player: Langresyka north and County south are not fun to defend. The first one is exposed and difficult to defend as you need to cross the road towards cover. The other has a building guarding the cut-off which has windows facing south, but it has only a few windows facing north and you can't retaliate if they attack on of the walls of the building. Garrisons should be probably be put away from cut-off points.

-Moderation of LOS/shot blockers. Fighting on places such as Khlodney are hell for Axis units as its difficult to find incoming assaults before they happen and you can't really keep at range. It also hurts Allied tank destroyer who need open areas.

-In 1v1 maps, don't make critical fuel points stupidly far away from the base with an incredibly open cut off connecting it. Trying to hold the fuels on Semoisky as Ostheer is not fun when you've also got to deal with pressure at mid which is vital for holding the map.

-Limit deep snow or put it in areas that make sense. The community maps with deep snow are horrible and snow just seems to be put in areas for no reason other than to be annoying. Ice should also be limited, unless it's some sort of flanking route.

-Make it so pushing up mid, attacking or across an area is not a death trap. Crossing in the Woods and the ice on Voda something favors defenders way too much. Langreskya's wide open area could also count.

-Map should be a reasonable size and not incredibly cramped to the point where pathfinding is dead.

A good start would be having fixed spawns. it's pretty sad when your % chance of winning on some maps goes up or down depending on if you spawned north/south or east/west

next would be to never include deep snow or mud. ever. blizzards aren't the greatest but they aren't nearly as game changing as having deep snow right outside your base *cough* Kholodney Winter West *cough*. after that would be making sure cover, building placement, and shot/vision blocker around important points is equal. Kharkov North and Angoville South cut offs are two maps that immediately come to mind where this is an issue.

after that would be making sure pathing for infantry and vehicles is as smooth as CoH2 will allow it to be. mix in a nice blend of short/medium/long engagement range areas of the map and you have at least a playable map. better than most of the 1v1 map rotation currently

easier said than done though, I suppose...

how do you do that? How do you make a map that is equal for a faction that is all close range imf that have no long range damage, and a faction that is all long range damage, with little closes range abilities?

Provide a variability in flanking routes and long range fighting grounds

The more and more I play this game the more and more I think there is almost no real way to make a balanced map.

You're not wrong. Perfect balance is impossible without symmetrical game design. Map designers strive for a reasonable level of balance, but in a game like CoH2 with unique factions and varied cover and building placement, you'll always have some variance in who has the advantage. It's part of the fun, if you ask me.

The fact that they got rid of multiple ammunition and fuel points with different sizes made the balance IMO harder.
In CoH1 you could compensate the loss of a big fuel point with smaller ones but on the other hand in CoH2 almost every point grands everything...

symmetry

I think a balanced map needs symmetry as well as an more open area with fewer shot blocks which typically favors Axis as well as a more closed in area with lots of flank routes that favors allies.
Something for everyone. Equally defendable cutoff points as well.

Basically just even cutoff points/fuel points/starting positions and central vp. Everything else can be different basically. Just as long as you dont overdo it and make one side spawn funneling across a bridge into no mans land while the other side has a bunch of stone railway stations on their side of the map. Just easy shit.

Short-range maps are in allies favor and long range maps are in axis favor

A good example of that is Stalingrad which is extremely in Soviet's favor as everyone knows.

I think a balanced map needs symmetry as well as an more open area with fewer shot blocks which typically favors Axis as well as a more closed in area with lots of flank routes that favors allies.
Something for everyone. Equally defendable cutoff points as well.

I agree and in the 1 map I created, this was exactly what I was shooting for.

To all the people who constantly whine and moan about maps...World Builder is right there for you to show us all how it's done.

Just sayin....

I agree and in the 1 map I created, this was exactly what I was shooting for.

To all the people who constantly whine and moan about maps...World Builder is right there for you to show us all how it's done.

Just sayin....

'cept relic is focused on pushing their own and other shitfest maps rather than actually give a two shits about actually great maps.


realistically, most balanced map will only have minor issues that can be overcome with micro and forethought. which means balanced resource points, cover, openness etc etc whatever that mean plus no pathing issues, no one dominating building structure, etc etc. and flat map.

I agree and in the 1 map I created, this was exactly what I was shooting for.

To all the people who constantly whine and moan about maps...World Builder is right there for you to show us all how it's done.

Just sayin....

I don't think its unreasonable for people to have issues with maps and not have the ability to do a good job themselves.

I can't cook, i'd still complain if I was served something crap at a restaurant.


..

i totes can cook though

symmetry

Crossing in the woods isn't balanced.

Crossing in the woods isn't balanced.

probably because of the river and shot blockers

probably because of the river and shot blockers

Yet symmetrycal

Yet symmetrycal

of course more than symmetry is needed, but its a good, if not best, place to start.

of course more than symmetry is needed, but its a good, if not best, place to start.

You are correct