T-34 needs a buff

Would be quite ironic considering russian radios, especially in the t34/76s either didn't exist or were shite.

congratulations! u understand the joke

t34's should get flag teams, since that's what Russians used for the first year and a half of the war.

the only twat here is you and obviously you're illiterate to have you not readthe last 12 pages? Its already been explained why it needs a buff, or are you a huge coh2 pro who can beat the top 100 axis 1v1 players with only t34s

i did read them and its the most vague thing i ever read. i have not seen a single decent argument.

lets have a quick overview:

cost/efficiency ratio: solid compare stats to the p4 and sherman and i have kept the future patch in mind

potency at time of arrival: solid once again solid. arrives slightly faster then the p4

Teching cost : solid overall the soviets have the cheaper tech.

veterancy : solid its offensive instead of defensive allowing the the vet 3 t-34 to hit softer targets more often.

So what is the issue? well simply put the teching structure of the soviets not providing any decent AT in tier and of course callin meta.

and both issues will be resolved in the future patch.

p.s. this is how you make an decent argument without insulting somebody.

I still have not seen a single decent argument why the t-34 needs a buff. the best argument so far is that its not an 85 so it sucks. well i can say the p4 sucks just as much then. but the t-34 is fine save for its shitty vet 1 ability.

In the land of NDA (unless Relic changes things without majority of recent alpha tester's knowledge), whatever advantages the T34 had over the enemy and within the current stock army

become completely redundant/nonexistent, making it much rarer and very unfavorable.

-

Sorry NDA, but this thread needed a reason. T34/76 has to have something/at least what Alex said (slightly cheaper, a bit faster RoF)

INB4 People already mentioned this pleasedontkillmemods

I still have not seen a single decent argument why the t-34 needs a buff. the best argument so far is that its not an 85 so it sucks. well i can say the p4 sucks just as much then. but the t-34 is fine save for its shitty vet 1 ability.

OK then, here you go:

The current Soviet tech tree is based on choices. For lategame, soviet players who tech have a choice between T3 and T4. T4 offers units that complement a more defensive playstyle, and it does this well, by giving soviet players access to SU85s and Katyushas. T3, on the other hand, is supposed to be used for a more mobile and offensive lategame. So far the tiers seem to be alright, right? The problem is that the T34/76 doesn't scale well into lategame. It is alright when it first enters the battlefield, and can hold its own vs. other medium tanks well enough.

However, both German factions have access to tanks with high frontal armor in their tech tree (KT and Panther) which do well vs. enemy armor. This allows German players to rely on their stock units lategame, because their stock units can deal with anything the allies throw at them. If a soviet player went T3 and the game progresses into lategame, they will struggle, because they are relying on a single medium tank for their entire lategame armor composition.

On the other hand, USF, which is the only other faction that is expected to rely on mediums in the lategame (I am considering a panther a heavy for obvious reasons), has access to a Tank Destroyer in the same tier that houses their medium. The result is a well balanced force that, while fragile, has the capability to deal with many different threats with good micro and tactics.

The T34/76 on the other hand, as Soviet T3s entire lategame potential, must rely on itself to combat enemy Super Heavy TDs and Lategame armor. There is no other armor synergy, and with the T34/76 itself not being particularly great at the AI role, thanks to its lack of pintle mg and its low ROF, soviet AT guns become quite exposed vs. Axis high DPS long range infantry units. Not only this, but Axis tanks generally benefit more in terms of survivability with vet. The P4 for example, gets over 230 armor at vet 2, while the T34 gains 0 penetration with veterancy. This leads to a frustrating game where Axis armor becomes harder to kill, while T34s die at the same rate, making vetting T34s very hard for less reward.

In conclusion, the shoddy scaling of Soviet T3 is why Soviet players use callins almost exclusively currently. They are the only way for Soviets to have any scaling armor whatsoever, and are better out of the gate than stock armor anyhow. T4 is fine, but is very defensive, which leads to an inability to kill German armor. This makes Soviet T4 a battle to hold onto every bit of land, as counterattacks lategame are very hard without good armor to support shoddily scaling conscripts.

You cannot look at the T34/76 in a vacuum, and compare it to the 110 fu Sherman or the 125 fu P4. The P4 is a transitional medium which is not the factions entire lategame. The Sherman is one piece of a combined arms lategame which the USF relies on. The T34 has the advantages of neither (scaling, supporting units, good performance vs. soft targets), but the disadvantages of both (low health, low armor, low penetration).

Now then, please tell me why I am wrong.

OK then, here you go:

The current Soviet tech tree is based on choices. For lategame, soviet players who tech have a choice between T3 and T4. T4 offers units that complement a more defensive playstyle, and it does this well, by giving soviet players access to SU85s and Katyushas. T3, on the other hand, is supposed to be used for a more mobile and offensive lategame. So far the tiers seem to be alright, right? The problem is that the T34/76 doesn't scale well into lategame. It is alright when it first enters the battlefield, and can hold its own vs. other medium tanks well enough.

However, both German factions have access to tanks with high frontal armor in their tech tree (KT and Panther) which do well vs. enemy armor. This allows German players to rely on their stock units lategame, because their stock units can deal with anything the allies throw at them. If a soviet player went T3 and the game progresses into lategame, they will struggle, because they are relying on a single medium tank for their entire lategame armor composition.

On the other hand, USF, which is the only other faction that is expected to rely on mediums in the lategame (I am considering a panther a heavy for obvious reasons), has access to a Tank Destroyer in the same tier that houses their medium. The result is a well balanced force that, while fragile, has the capability to deal with many different threats with good micro and tactics.

The T34/76 on the other hand, as Soviet T3s entire lategame potential, must rely on itself to combat enemy Super Heavy TDs and Lategame armor. There is no other armor synergy, and with the T34/76 itself not being particularly great at the AI role, thanks to its lack of pintle mg and its low ROF, soviet AT guns become quite exposed vs. Axis high DPS long range infantry units. Not only this, but Axis tanks generally benefit more in terms of survivability with vet. The P4 for example, gets over 230 armor at vet 2, while the T34 gains 0 penetration with veterancy. This leads to a frustrating game where Axis armor becomes harder to kill, while T34s die at the same rate, making vetting T34s very hard for less reward.

In conclusion, the shoddy scaling of Soviet T3 is why Soviet players use callins almost exclusively currently. They are the only way for Soviets to have any scaling armor whatsoever, and are better out of the gate than stock armor anyhow. T4 is fine, but is very defensive, which leads to an inability to kill German armor. This makes Soviet T4 a battle to hold onto every bit of land, as counterattacks lategame are very hard without good armor to support shoddily scaling conscripts.

Now then, please tell me why I am wrong.

You're wrong. We don't have a choice of T3 or T4 in a 4v4 as the life expectancy of a T34/76 in any major tank battle is 3-4 seconds. At least T4 gives some ability to keep Axis armor at bay, assuming that you have an IS2 to soak up damage.

Other than that, you're spot on. I would love to be able to buy JP4's, would even gladly pay a fuel premium.

If a soviet player went T3 and the game progresses into lategame, they will struggle, because they are relying on a single medium tank for their entire lategame armor composition.

If an ostplayer went T3 and the game progresses into lategame, they will struggle, because they are relying on a single medium tank for their entire lategame armor composition.

The 2 sentences are correct no ?

If an ostplayer went T3 and the game progresses into lategame, they will struggle, because they are relying on a single medium tank for their entire lategame armor composition.

The 2 sentences are correct no ?

Good think Ost has the best non-doc AT in the game.

Zis and Paks are almost the same thing after the pak reload speed nerf

If an ostplayer went T3 and the game progresses into lategame, they will struggle, because they are relying on a single medium tank for their entire lategame armor composition.

The 2 sentences are correct no ?

True, except for the fact that the P4 scales better into lategame with vet 2 armor skirts, which gives it similar survivability to an E8. On top of that, it is cheaper for a wehr player to tech T3 + T4 than it is for a sov player to tech T3 + T4. Ost T4 also gives access to the Panzerwerfer + Brummbar + Panther, which are bonafide lategame armor while soviet T4 only gives access to Katyussha + SU85, neither of which will help soviet stock armies from pushing fortified positions. (No High armor/ HP breakthrough tank)

comm_ash

Your not wrong at all mate and the soviet tech is indeed a problem. but you cannot resolve it by buffing the t-34, and they would still struggle against the panther and KT's. You would need to give the t-34 a completely new role to make soviet tier 3 work.

And this issue is resolved in the future patch. and while the t-34 is going to be used even less in the future patch this is more because other units will become a lot more viable.

True, except for the fact that the P4 scales better into lategame with vet 2 armor skirts, which gives it similar survivability to an E8

its slightly better in scaling late game but not by much . the p4 is just as bad against the callin meta of the soviets as the t-34 is against the ostheer tiger spam.

In the land of NDA (unless Relic changes things without majority of recent alpha tester's knowledge), whatever advantages the T34 had over the enemy and within the current stock army

become completely redundant/nonexistent, making it much rarer and very unfavorable.

Totally agree in NDA - T-34/76 lost it's only one current advantage and didn't get anything in exchange, in the other hand , in NDA land, PIV was better option than in current meta.

Zis and Paks are almost the same thing after the pak reload speed nerf

pak wont bounce off t34

zis can bounce off p4

lets not ignore shreks

True, except for the fact that the P4 scales better into lategame with vet 2 armor skirts, which gives it similar survivability to an E8. On top of that, it is cheaper for a wehr player to tech T3 + T4 than it is for a sov player to tech T3 + T4. Ost T4 also gives access to the Panzerwerfer + Brummbar + Panther, which are bonafide lategame armor while soviet T4 only gives access to Katyussha + SU85, neither of which will help soviet stock armies from pushing fortified positions. (No High armor/ HP breakthrough tank)

- The real problem is not that "it is cheaper for a wehr player to tech T3 + T4 than it is for a sov player to tech T3 + T4", the prob is that Call-ins come too early + are really good + no tech requirements, for both, ost and SU. I really don't see the necessity of a buffed T-34 that will come earlier than everything else + the call-ins that will complement him very well. Lets not take units alone, but lets look the whole picture.

- Panzerwerfer is kinda trash imo.

pak wont bounce off t34

zis can bounce off p4

lets not ignore shreks

pak will not bombard your squads / support weapon

lets not ignore cheap mines and PTRS weapon on 6 guys squad

comm_ash

Your not wrong at all mate and the soviet tech is indeed a problem. but you cannot resolve it by buffing the t-34, and they would still struggle against the panther and KT's. You would need to give the t-34 a completely new role to make soviet tier 3 work.

And this issue is resolved in the future patch. and while the t-34 is going to be used even less in the future patch this is more because other units will become a lot more viable.



it Slightly better in late game but not by much . the p4 is just as bad against the callin meta of the soviets as the t-34 is against the ostheer tiger spam.

The thing is, with the changes in the patch, the T34 loses its few current advantages and only gains one. It absolutely needs a buff even with the patch changes, maybe even more so. (And now we must stop talking about the alpha, because we cannot breach the NDA on the forum). We can only discuss the T34/76 in its current form, as for all we know the alpha changes may not ever transition into live.

The P4 still scales better as a support tank, and as a tank in its own right. The T34/76 on the other hand, scales purely in a supporting manner with higher DPS, but has nothing to support.

Totally agree in NDA - T-34/76 lost it's only one current advantage and didn't get anything in exchange, in the other hand , in NDA land, PIV was better option than in current meta.

You know just as well as i do that the soviets are not dependant on the t-34 in the alpha.Aand the clunky tech tree got fixed and is very fluid.

- I really don't see the necessity of a buffed T-34 that will come earlier than everything else + the call-ins that will complement him very well. Lets not take units alone, but lets look the whole picture.

- Panzerwerfer is kinda trash imo.

-Not in the NDA.

-Yes, it need some love.

You know just as well as i do that the soviets are not dependant on the t-34 in the alpha.Aand the clunky tech tree got fixed and is very fluid.

Some of changes were good, but they totally killed that unit, if you are not using right doctrine.

The thing is, with the changes in the patch, the T34 loses its few current advantages and only gains one. It absolutely needs a buff even with the patch changes, maybe even more so. (And now we must stop talking about the alpha, because we cannot breach the NDA on the forum). We can only discuss the T34/76 in its current form, as for all we know the alpha changes may not ever transition into live.

The P4 still scales better as a support tank, and as a tank in its own right. The T34/76 on the other hand, scales purely in a supporting manner with higher DPS, but has nothing to support.

Lets have a few rounds of the new and improved soviet faction and then discuss this further.

-Not in the NDA.

I'am talking of current patch

But it totally killed that unit.

Not at all. less priority perhaps but it wasn't killed