I really can't win as the Wehr. I need help. I'm not having very much fun playing with them.
Or, if watching things are your thing, the game can be viewed here @9:50: [twitch=turbotortoise43]archive_id=660927431[/twitch] where I also annotate my play. I would really appreciate some insight as to how I could improve.
I can't win a game as Wehrmacht
20 May 2015, 06:54 AM
#1
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
Southland
20 May 2015, 07:09 AM
#2
Posts: 935
U have no infantry thats ur problem
20 May 2015, 08:07 AM
#3
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
next time 6 grens into tiger tank? 
20 May 2015, 08:33 AM
#4
Posts: 231
More effective than 2 infantry squads into 2 support teams into T2. At the least get a 2nd gren after mortar. Sovs is arguably most mobile army, you're gonna get overwhelmed if you have only have 2 actual infantry units.
Plus you got T2, then proceeded to do nothing with it for ~3 minutes. Why even build it? And then you don't get another unit out of it for another like 5 minutes or something. It's a misallocation of resources, which wehrmacht can't afford.
You're already mechanized, if you're just gonna use your 251 as a harassment unit, might as well call in the 250, and get a PGren with it.
Just a few things I noticed, didn't watch all the way to end game, the early game is the big issue. Need more grens, and don't tech/build T2 until you really need to.
Plus you got T2, then proceeded to do nothing with it for ~3 minutes. Why even build it? And then you don't get another unit out of it for another like 5 minutes or something. It's a misallocation of resources, which wehrmacht can't afford.
You're already mechanized, if you're just gonna use your 251 as a harassment unit, might as well call in the 250, and get a PGren with it.
Just a few things I noticed, didn't watch all the way to end game, the early game is the big issue. Need more grens, and don't tech/build T2 until you really need to.
20 May 2015, 08:48 AM
#5
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
Thanks for the reply.
I did have 3 combat squads, and I teched to T2 as quick as I could for access to upgrades. I do mention the want for another squad a few times earlier, eventually I opted for a PaK40 which still arrived, with travel time, too late. Another infantry squad, may have been even more disastrous in that situation, delaying an ATG for another minute or so. Perhaps calling up the 4th squad before the 250/7 would have been a better option, but I just can't see another squad really helping me here.
T2 was built at 5:00 and a t70, arguably slower than usual, arrived at ~11:00. The 250/7 was supposed to support an attack that never materialized, allowing me to soft retreat and reinforce, hopefully eventually allowing me to creep forward against their entrenched position. That was the plan anyway, very poorly executed. I suppose I had time to be a little more campy and take a different approach, perhaps punching through the center with smoke, or a well placed mortar barrage.
I did have 3 combat squads, and I teched to T2 as quick as I could for access to upgrades. I do mention the want for another squad a few times earlier, eventually I opted for a PaK40 which still arrived, with travel time, too late. Another infantry squad, may have been even more disastrous in that situation, delaying an ATG for another minute or so. Perhaps calling up the 4th squad before the 250/7 would have been a better option, but I just can't see another squad really helping me here.
T2 was built at 5:00 and a t70, arguably slower than usual, arrived at ~11:00. The 250/7 was supposed to support an attack that never materialized, allowing me to soft retreat and reinforce, hopefully eventually allowing me to creep forward against their entrenched position. That was the plan anyway, very poorly executed. I suppose I had time to be a little more campy and take a different approach, perhaps punching through the center with smoke, or a well placed mortar barrage.
20 May 2015, 09:40 AM
#6
1 
Posts: 2885
against double maxim on this map I would go for 4 grens into 222 and 1 pgren, then paks and CAS as it is the only way to have muni there.
20 May 2015, 09:49 AM
#7
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
against double maxim on this map I would go for 4 grens into 222 and 1 pgren, then paks and CAS as it is the only way to have muni there.
yeah but that ZiS gun rolled up quickkkkk. i could see how it could help me at least pester the 82mills and give my GrW 34 a small window of opportunity to dislodge the maxims. come what may, it seems to be the general consensus that regardless of build or commander AT LEAST 4 grenadier squads is non-negotiable.
20 May 2015, 10:10 AM
#8
5 Posts: 615
Using that doc I tend to try to skip building T2 in favour of getting the STUG E as early as possible - of course that depends on CPs though so if it looks like I'm going to have to face down a T70 I'll either spring for the T2 -> Pak 40 or try and scare it off with a PGren -> Shrecks call in.
20 May 2015, 10:35 AM
#9
Posts: 225 | Subs: 1
You dont have to build 4 grens (but prefered against heavy t0 conspam)
Try out going gren,mg,gren,gren or gren,gren,mg,gren,mortar.
Of course the build orders are map and foe dependent.
Mechanzied is in general a good idea,just Assaultgrens wont make it on such a rather open and snowy map.Use them in urban maps or places with a lot of corners and sight blockers.Additionally assgrens shouldnt basically be your first squad,you will mainly bleed mp and as a capping unit i'd rather go for 2nd pio.
As soon as possible t2 pgreng or pak or scout car then whatever you feel is right to go for.
Hope that i could help you.
Try out going gren,mg,gren,gren or gren,gren,mg,gren,mortar.
Of course the build orders are map and foe dependent.
Mechanzied is in general a good idea,just Assaultgrens wont make it on such a rather open and snowy map.Use them in urban maps or places with a lot of corners and sight blockers.Additionally assgrens shouldnt basically be your first squad,you will mainly bleed mp and as a capping unit i'd rather go for 2nd pio.
As soon as possible t2 pgreng or pak or scout car then whatever you feel is right to go for.
Hope that i could help you.
20 May 2015, 10:36 AM
#10
Posts: 600
Id suggest having spearhead on your bar for a weapon team spammer (Moratar HT) Clears them out pretty good, also counters 120's fairly well.
Use Mech assault vs US. They have a harder time dealing with a stug E.
Use Mech assault vs US. They have a harder time dealing with a stug E.
20 May 2015, 15:45 PM
#11
1 Posts: 2885
yeah but that ZiS gun rolled up quickkkkk. i could see how it could help me at least pester the 82mills and give my GrW 34 a small window of opportunity to dislodge the maxims. come what may, it seems to be the general consensus that regardless of build or commander AT LEAST 4 grenadier squads is non-negotiable.
The problem with maxims is not that they are powerful mgs as they are not but that they are quick harassment units that can counter single squad trying the counterharassment, and you usually cannot use more not to weaken your front lines. Thats where you need 222 or even 221 for less cost. It makes maxims retreat quickly and is fast enough to cover both flanks. More maxims is less cons and less AT nades. If you kite remaining conscripts well single zis gun poses no threat. And making a zis is a big mistake on soviet side. It is costly unit that will do next to nothing for most of the early-mid game. That lets you overwhelm him with infantry. If it is some cons + double maxim into zis gun you need nothing more than spamming grens... No tech, just 5-6 grens with riflenades and maybe g43 and you cap whole map easily. Ofc it is not good against any other soviet tactic but you can make 3 and decide what is needed next.
20 May 2015, 17:35 PM
#12
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
You dont have to build 4 grens (but prefered against heavy t0 conspam)
Try out going gren,mg,gren,gren or gren,gren,mg,gren,mortar.
Of course the build orders are map and foe dependent.
Mechanzied is in general a good idea,just Assaultgrens wont make it on such a rather open and snowy map.Use them in urban maps or places with a lot of corners and sight blockers.Additionally assgrens shouldnt basically be your first squad,you will mainly bleed mp and as a capping unit i'd rather go for 2nd pio.
As soon as possible t2 pgreng or pak or scout car then whatever you feel is right to go for.
Hope that i could help you.
Id suggest having spearhead on your bar for a weapon team spammer (Moratar HT) Clears them out pretty good, also counters 120's fairly well.
Use Mech assault vs US. They have a harder time dealing with a stug E.
This is what I usually do as a 99.9% default. I changed here to rush the fuel since I didn't want to deal with a maxim or cons in the house or sandbagged up.
20 May 2015, 17:39 PM
#13
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
The problem with maxims is not that they are powerful mgs as they are not but that they are quick harassment units that can counter single squad trying the counterharassment, and you usually cannot use more not to weaken your front lines. Thats where you need 222 or even 221 for less cost. It makes maxims retreat quickly and is fast enough to cover both flanks. More maxims is less cons and less AT nades. If you kite remaining conscripts well single zis gun poses no threat. And making a zis is a big mistake on soviet side. It is costly unit that will do next to nothing for most of the early-mid game. That lets you overwhelm him with infantry. If it is some cons + double maxim into zis gun you need nothing more than spamming grens... No tech, just 5-6 grens with riflenades and maybe g43 and you cap whole map easily. Ofc it is not good against any soviet tactic but you can make 3 and decide what is needed next.
Ok the 222 makes sense now that you outline its mobility and I can see why you recommend a cmdr with resource conversion
20 May 2015, 19:24 PM
#14
Posts: 1554 | Subs: 7
I will take a look at your replay!
EDIT: My review will come tomorrow.
EDIT: My review will come tomorrow.
"Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
20 May 2015, 22:40 PM
#15
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
in case the first game didn't offer a good sample. ran into the guard motor wall.
20 May 2015, 23:24 PM
#16
Posts: 935
next time 6 grens into tiger tank?
well at least 3 (4) in the begining NOT ONE + hmg + mortar + some other shit
20 May 2015, 23:42 PM
#17
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
well at least 3 (4) in the begining NOT ONE + hmg + mortar + some other shit
i had 3.
21 May 2015, 01:27 AM
#18
Posts: 1248
Ayeee I see the problem here, he believes anything more than 2 or 3 is spam Kappa
21 May 2015, 02:32 AM
#19
Posts: 13
I really can't win as the Wehr. I need help. I'm not having very much fun playing with them.
Or, if watching things are your thing, the game can be viewed here @9:50: [twitch=turbotortoise43]archive_id=660927431[/twitch] where I also annotate my play. I would really appreciate some insight as to how I could improve.
It is obvious that it is a l2p issue. Everyone knows Germans are OP, good sir.
21 May 2015, 02:57 AM
#20
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
It is obvious that it is a l2p issue. Everyone knows Germans are OP, good sir.
hence why i'm hereeee,
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