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Sturm Tiger

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Alexzandvar
7 May 2015, 17:28 PM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2015, 08:13 AMDakkaIsMagic
Its fine the way it is.

You just need to either support it, or use it to support you, you can't expect it to move in and change a battle on its own.


That the thing, it changes battles entirely on it's own. It can 1 shot medium tanks, wipe out entire blobs, it instantly kills support weapons. The problem with the Sturmtiger is that the micro required to use it is very high; making it unattractive.

The fact it's the least built unit in the game by a fairly significant margin is pretty telling. And it's funny because it is an excellent unit, but just pretty much unviable for the average player.
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5trategos
7 May 2015, 18:08 PM
#22
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jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2015, 00:57 AMJadame!

It should be hight risk hight reward death incarnate.


No unit should fit that role in CoH2, ever. It's just bad design that ends up frustrating everyone.

-For one, there usually are ways to mitigate the high risk part of the equation which leads to overpowered units. Think back to the old Tiger Ace.

-It leads to formulaic meta gameplay where the high-risk high-reward unit is always going to be the best choice in specific situations. There's already too much of that going around. We don't need more.

Sturm Tiger isn't in a good place now but stretching its cost/performance to extremes isn't the way to fix it.

Edit: If anything, the Sturm Tiger is carryover from the initial (and very flawed) design of OKW that was heavily based on high-risk/reward.
If you managed to keep all your trucks and vehicles alive through mid-game, you were very likely to win, but if you lost any of your fuel investments, it would be an uphill battle to stay alive.
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QueenRatchet123
7 May 2015, 18:09 PM
#23
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Gimmick unit

put it in a commander,

Replace it with p4
jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2015, 14:01 PMJohnnyB

There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
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LemonJuice
7 May 2015, 18:18 PM
#24
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do we REALLY want a 20s b4 on wheels? let me answer that for you: no.

if the cooldown is down to 20s youll be able to deal deal more manpower damage than the other player will be able to generate. in addition, you basically also have the power to force retreats every time your sturmtiger is around, which will be pretty much all the time since it can reload so quickly.
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Alexzandvar
7 May 2015, 18:23 PM
#25
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Giving it a tad bit more armor or mobility would go a long way towards making it more friendly for players who lack good micro. Right now it's very easy to pen with pretty much any part of the allied arsenal.

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QueenRatchet123
7 May 2015, 18:28 PM
#26
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jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2015, 18:23 PMAlexzandvar
Giving it a tad bit more armor or mobility would go a long way towards making it more friendly for players who lack good micro.


Make USF easier to play by giving them a heavy tank

Other than that, to the players that lack good micro, i suggest they learn how to play
jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2015, 14:01 PMJohnnyB

There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
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Alexzandvar
7 May 2015, 18:39 PM
#27
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jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2015, 18:28 PMQueenRatchet123


Make USF easier to play by giving them a heavy tank

Other than that, to the players that lack good micro, i suggest they learn how to play


This would be a valid argument if USF was the least played faction by a large margin, but the Sturmtiger is unique in that it's a good unit but very, very few people use it because of how you need to baby sit it.

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QueenRatchet123
7 May 2015, 18:51 PM
#28
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jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2015, 18:39 PMAlexzandvar


This would be a valid argument if USF was the least played faction by a large margin, but the Sturmtiger is unique in that it's a good unit but very, very few people use it because of how you need to baby sit it.




The REASON the Sturmtiger isnt used very often s because its a gimmick. Y get one when u can get a panther?

Stuka does its job better anyway

baby sit a sturmtiger? u joking? Fire it. retreat, reload. Very simple
jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2015, 14:01 PMJohnnyB

There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
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Alexzandvar
7 May 2015, 18:55 PM
#29
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jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2015, 18:51 PMQueenRatchet123



The REASON the Sturmtiger isnt used very often s because its a gimmick. Y get one when u can get a panther?

Stuka does its job better anyway

baby sit a sturmtiger? u joking? Fire it. retreat, reload. Very simple


It's not gimmicky at all. It can 1 shot most medium armor, give tanks permanent engine damage, turn entire blobs to ash, fire through shot blockers.

The Panther isn't always the answer, I recently had a game were the Sturmtiger preformed excellent and helped us win the game, something that any other tank wouldn't have been able to do.

You do need to baby sit a Sturmtiger, it's slow so you need to predict enemy pushes, it's easy to pen which means you need to figure out if you can kill his AT before he does to much damage to you. You need to ensure it retreats to a safe position to reload and protect it.

You need to go through more steps to get it to preform then you do with any other unit in the game.
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PanzerErotica
7 May 2015, 19:09 PM
#30
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I would give back its previous range and target tracking.

-range so it could be used to ambush with a spotter
-target tracking (while aiming, not for the projectile) for better self defense so you wouldn't be punished so much for not building a panther instead

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Brick Top
7 May 2015, 20:03 PM
#31
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Theres no problem with how to micro it. The problem is the rocket not even reaching where you aim before exploding.

Aiming behind tanks helps a lot, but that does require getting even closer.
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Nuclear Arbitor
7 May 2015, 23:44 PM
#32
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stiger is a gimmick but unlike most gimmicks it can be really powerful. i've had good luck using it with an IR halftrack on urban maps and shooting through buildings. that said, anyone whos decent won't have a problem dealing with the thing. it's obvious when it's firing because it pauses for close to 2 seconds and the barrel moves up. if you don't bunch your squads and are watching the stiger you'll never lose more than one squad at a time (provided it's not firing through a los blocker) and you can probably avoid any wipes.

once the stiger stops moving spread squads to the side. of course a good stiger user will avoid firing it but if it's not firing it's not doing damage and 160 fuel not damage is fucking worthless and with OKW's reduced income it'll be even longer before they get another fuel based unit on the field.
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daspoulos
8 May 2015, 01:45 AM
#33
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Give it 45 range, make the grenade launcher not shit, make it so it can actually make use of its veterancy. The thing is maybe gonna shoot 10 times all game. Lower the veterancy requirements.
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Nuclear Arbitor
8 May 2015, 02:03 AM
#34
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the grenade launcher is actually really fucking good. it's literally a free nade on the thing; the only downside is the range. i've never got one above vet 1 though.
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The amazing Chandler
8 May 2015, 09:05 AM
#35
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Posts: 1355

I usually dont take part in balance discussions because i am not a pro (but not a noob ether) but i cant help it this time.
LOL for everyone who says that the ST needs a buff (of any kind). Just LMAO, you cant be serious!!! The best one was a Armourbuff :rofl::rofl::rofl:


jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2015, 01:45 AMdaspoulos
Give it 45 range, make the grenade launcher not shit, make it so it can actually make use of its veterancy. The thing is maybe gonna shoot 10 times all game. Lower the veterancy requirements.


And if you are using it right it would be 10 sqadwipes!
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JHeartless
8 May 2015, 19:12 PM
#36
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jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2015, 01:45 AMdaspoulos
Give it 45 range, make the grenade launcher not shit, make it so it can actually make use of its veterancy. The thing is maybe gonna shoot 10 times all game. Lower the veterancy requirements.


This. Actually alot of things need vet tweaks. One size fit all veterancy is pretty bad. Example dedicated expensive units. Tank Destroyers, KV8s etc. Good luck getting more then 1 level with things like that in most games.
jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2015, 21:57 PMREforever
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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