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Relic, the Community, and the NDA

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6 May 2015, 23:58 PM
#21
avatar of hound54

Posts: 31 | Subs: 1

I agree with CieZ on his commentary.If people who were fortunate enough to be in the alpha then behave like children what confidence can we have in them as testers.I would like to see the best players test this alpha so that this game would be the best it could be.
7 May 2015, 00:06 AM
#22
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657

I agree with CieZ on his commentary.If people who were fortunate enough to be in the alpha then behave like children what confidence can we have in them as testers.I would like to see the best players test this alpha so that this game would be the best it could be.
It's not so much as to who got in, it's more about how information leaked outside of the alpha Illuminati is handled once it turns into second hand knowledge and spreads.
7 May 2015, 00:11 AM
#23
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4



We're not the NDA Police but we won't tolerate blatant leaking of info either. COH2.ORG is a fan site, fans want the game to be a success. If you signed an NDA then its advisable to hold up your end of the contract. We as volunteers are not here to read between the lines and determine if you're possibly breaking a Relic NDA.

All we ask is that you use some common sense people.


This. Exactly.
7 May 2015, 00:16 AM
#24
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2015, 00:11 AMCieZ


This. Exactly.
How does this pertain to the individuals who are not participating in the alpha and are not bound by the NDA? Will it be passed off as harmless speculation or full fledged breach of NDA to which the individual is not bound to (even if the info isn't correct)?
7 May 2015, 00:20 AM
#25
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

How does this pertain to the individuals who are not participating in the alpha and are not bound by the NDA? Will it be passed off as harmless speculation or full fledged breach of NDA to which the individual is not bound to (even if the info isn't correct)?


Can't break it if you didn't sign it
7 May 2015, 00:23 AM
#26
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657



Can't break it if you didn't sign it
Then if thats the case it is acceptable to discuss second hand knowledge. Lol
7 May 2015, 00:27 AM
#27
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

Think of it this way.

Stop thinking about yourself for a moment. You as a poster belong to a community within coh2.org. It is a sub-community of a larger Company of Heroes community. We want to encourage Relic to participate with us informally (see Q&A chat with Quinn) and formally (tournament sponsorship) etc. If you were in Relic's shoes why would you want to participate in a community of shit heads who (you feel) are damaging your product.

You wouldn't.

This is about relationships and not some Rambo inspired vendetta. When you do shitty things it'll damage the relationship.

I hate the NDA with a passion. It is holding so much back. The best we can do for now is to continue to advocate for changing of the NDA terms.
7 May 2015, 00:37 AM
#28
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2015, 00:27 AMNapalm
Think of it this way.

Stop thinking about yourself for a moment. You as a poster belong to a community within coh2.org. It is a sub-community of a larger Company of Heroes community. We want to encourage Relic to participate with us informally (see Q&A chat with Quinn) and formally (tournament sponsorship) etc. If you were in Relic's shoes why would you want to participate in a community of shit heads who (you feel) are damaging your product.

You wouldn't.

This is about relationships and not some Rambo inspired vendetta. When you do shitty things it'll damage the relationship.

I hate the NDA with a passion. It is holding so much back. The best we can do for now is to continue to advocate for changing of the NDA terms.
I don't like to be the bearer of bad news, but their trust in us was shown in preivous alphas and betas where it seemed that Relic didn't trust us to tie our own shoes. After a long and silent relationship, I can see where people's reservations about "trusting" Relic comes from. It will take a while to heal, but changes need to be made on both sides of the aisle. Relic needs to be more upfront with us and trust us instead of hiding everything behind their NDA. And at the same time we start treating them with more respect.
7 May 2015, 00:48 AM
#29
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

jump backJump back to quoted post7 May 2015, 00:27 AMNapalm
Think of it this way.

Stop thinking about yourself for a moment. You as a poster belong to a community within coh2.org. It is a sub-community of a larger Company of Heroes community. We want to encourage Relic to participate with us informally (see Q&A chat with Quinn) and formally (tournament sponsorship) etc. If you were in Relic's shoes why would you want to participate in a community of shit heads who (you feel) are damaging your product.

You wouldn't.

This is about relationships and not some Rambo inspired vendetta. When you do shitty things it'll damage the relationship.

I hate the NDA with a passion. It is holding so much back. The best we can do for now is to continue to advocate for changing of the NDA terms.


the community makes the product a success or not. if relic feels that the community being excited over their product hurts the product then they and their product will be harmed by it.

i also don't see how breaking the NDA makes relic less likely to share informally as informally sharing does not have an NDA (by definition). i can understand that they might feel that the community has violated their trust by sharing but the sharing isn't usually malicious; someone get's into the alpha and they share some information with their CoH2 buddies who didn't get it. those people then share it 2nd hand with other people. how clearly and how much they share various from situation to situation.
7 May 2015, 00:51 AM
#30
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657



the community makes the product a success or not. if relic feels that the community being excited over their product hurts the product then they and their product will be harmed by it.

i also don't see how breaking the NDA makes relic less likely to share informally as informally sharing does not have an NDA (by definition). i can understand that they might feel that the community has violated their trust by sharing but the sharing isn't usually malicious; someone get's into the alpha and they share some information with their CoH2 buddies who didn't get it. those people then share it 2nd hand with other people. how clearly and how much they share various from situation to situation.
Their definition of NDA feels like they enforce it because they think most people are too stupid to notice the differences between an alpha and the final product.
7 May 2015, 00:55 AM
#31
avatar of hound54

Posts: 31 | Subs: 1

Relic established the NDA trusting players to keep it.Even secondhand knowledge hurts the agreement.
7 May 2015, 01:00 AM
#32
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

jump backJump back to quoted post6 May 2015, 23:03 PMNapalm





Now to sum up my opinion on the NDA with Gifs:

Relic and the Community:

When people see NDA:

When people ask Relic for slight hints on the "exciting" projects Relic has in store for the community

7 May 2015, 01:08 AM
#33
avatar of Existant
Donator 22

Posts: 284

LOL Vonivan is so fucking right. This made my day. Fuck all you people whom are kissing relics ass right now.
7 May 2015, 01:11 AM
#34
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

I don't like to be the bearer of bad news, but their trust in us was shown in preivous alphas and betas where it seemed that Relic didn't trust us to tie our own shoes...


maybe it is all due to the fact that in the early days when the game had bigger and more open beta testers, beta patch notes and stuffs were leaking a lot?

7 May 2015, 01:17 AM
#35
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657



maybe it is all due to the fact that in the early days when the game had bigger and more open beta testers, beta patch notes and stuffs were leaking a lot?

I was looking to highlight more the ignoring the feedback provided by the test groups and making their own drastic changes in its place.
7 May 2015, 02:08 AM
#36
avatar of Unfinisheddonut
Donator 11

Posts: 77

There isn't much to discuss, Relic & Sega will never change their policies on NDA and community involvement. stahp beating this dead horse
7 May 2015, 02:17 AM
#37
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4

I don't like to be the bearer of bad news, but their trust in us was shown in preivous alphas and betas where it seemed that Relic didn't trust us to tie our own shoes. After a long and silent relationship, I can see where people's reservations about "trusting" Relic comes from. It will take a while to heal, but changes need to be made on both sides of the aisle. Relic needs to be more upfront with us and trust us instead of hiding everything behind their NDA. And at the same time we start treating them with more respect.



It's interesting, when people start citing the past, when everything as of late, new patch, road map, alpha, weekly streams, in that context show infinitesimally more openness on relics behalf. However, infantile it might be to measure things like that, they've done X thus everything's OK now- I'm no longer bitter. I'm more interested in the progress and the process of forging a better relationship. I've forgiven relic... however egotistical that may sound, and i hope they've forgiven the harsh nonconstructive things i've... we've, said in the past. I feel like it's us at the moment who have to meet them half way.
7 May 2015, 02:23 AM
#38
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657




It's interesting, when people start citing the past, when everything as of late, new patch, road map, alpha, weekly streams, in that context show infinitesimally more openness on relics behalf. However, infantile it might be to measure things like that, they've done X thus everything's OK now- I'm no longer bitter. I'm more interested in the progress and the process of forging a better relationship. I've forgiven relic... however egotistical that may sound, and i hope they've forgiven the harsh nonconstructive things i've... we've, said in the past. I feel like it's us at the moment who have to meet them half way.
This is an all around problem, both sides exacerbated the issue. Pointing at only one side or another is ignorant, some people need to realize that. And with this new step they are taking, its awesome, something we have been waiting for a long time. :) But they need to be commited to it, and live up to the promise of being more open. I think if they live up to their side of it, the community will gradually follow suit and do the same.
7 May 2015, 03:24 AM
#39
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4

This is an all around problem, both sides exacerbated the issue. Pointing at only one side or another is ignorant, some people need to realize that. And with this new step they are taking, its awesome, something we have been waiting for a long time. :) But they need to be commited to it, and live up to the promise of being more open. I think if they live up to their side of it, the community will gradually follow suit and do the same.


i agree, it all got.. is, really extreme. we're essentially building a self-fulfilling prophecy here, especially when talking about "commitment" considering any of us could uninstall/throw our HD into the ocean, which is why i've stopped keeping score and hope more people do the same. which isn't to mean, not give constructive criticism or manage accountability.
7 May 2015, 03:25 AM
#40
avatar of Jaedrik

Posts: 446 | Subs: 2

Contracts cannot morally bind third parties.
There is nothing whatsoever wrong with spreading information gained secondhand.
However, the OP raises the point of tact - and perhaps this mythological 'respect' I keep hearing about.
To which there's no real response, because it's spot on!
But, again, one wouldn't be in the wrong if they spread information secondhand.
Of course, neither is the moderation team in the wrong for stemming the tide, since this voluntary community is subject to whatever arbitration, however ridiculous, which IMO protecting the NDA happens to be quite a deal of.
This is moral neutral ground, and both sides are performing acceptably.
The only ones in the wrong are those who break their contracts.
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