Relic, the Community, and the NDA

Well, let's see how long this post lasts before the mods have to lock it because of some terrible trolls... anyway, here goes nothing.


I had some down time at work today and was able to keep up with the shoutbox on my phone. Unfortunately it is really difficult to post in the shout box from a phone, and my account wasn't logged in, so I didn't bother responding - but what I did see was pretty disturbing... Correct me if I'm wrong but people were basically making the argument that it is okay to leak NDA protected material under the guise that "Coh2.org isn't Relic's personal NDA police." Or something stupid like that.

Okay, sure, Coh2.org isn't Relic's NDA police, but does that mean that we as a community should just throw the NDA out the window and spit in Relic's face - potentially harming them as a company? No.

It is so disheartening to see the way that people are reacting to all of this. As I said in the shoutbox before, the community spends vast amounts of time hoping and wishing that Relic would let us be more involved in their process. Wishing they'd communicate with us more openly. Wishing they'd begin to trust us. And then what happens? They open up the alpha build of their new faction to the community, under the one condition that EVERYONE who applied to be in the alpha (aka, everyone currently in the alpha) agreed to not discuss the contents of the build outside of the group that was let in. It's really not that complicated.

Sure, their NDA is probably archaic and unnecessary. I absolutely think that the sorts of NDAs that Relic wants us to agree to have no place in gaming in 2015, but the fact of the matter is that none of us know why they think it is necessary. Clearly they believe that leaks will hurt their business in some way, or they wouldn't waste time creating and enforcing NDAs in the first place. We may disagree with their consensus - we may be wrong or we may be right. But at the end of the day it is imperative that we respect their wishes because respect is a two way street. If we want them to respect us, and work with us, we need to do the same - even when we disagree. Anyone with more than a 3rd grade public education should be mature enough to understand how respect works. Apparently, there are a lot of people in this community that don't.

It's simple guys. Don't break the NDA. Relic created a place to discuss the new content. Talk about it there. And for those who aren't fortunate enough to be in the alpha, just be patient. It's not the end of the world to wait a month (or however long the alpha is going to last) to get your hands on the content.

If we want Relic to keep taking strides towards working together with us, the community, we need to meet them halfway. Coh2.org might not be the NDA police, but if we want to foster a positive relationship with Relic, it certainly doesn't hurt to help weed out the idiots that broke the contract that they agreed to when applying for the alpha. Honestly, anyone who breaks the NDA like that probably isn't in the alpha for the right reasons to begin with.

TLDR -

Community begs Relic to community and work with us.
Relic creates a community driven alpha.
Community bitches and moans about the NDA, and openly discusses ways to break it without getting in trouble.

Does anyone else see the flaw in this logic. /facepalm.

Feel free to discuss this topic in a mature fashion.

This is what my post yesterday was supposed to say but came out horribly wrong.

Sure, their NDA is probably archaic and unnecessary. I absolutely think that the sorts of NDAs that Relic wants us to agree to have no place in gaming in 2015, but the fact of the matter is that none of us know why they think it is necessary.

I ponder a lot about the community and Relic. I've summarized my feelings into one image.



Interrupt it as you may. The NDA needs to be modified in a way that supports open communication and relationship building. By classifying everything as "confidential" information it prohibits both. Other similar businesses seem to function without such a harsh NDA. Why?

coh2.org shouldn't stress the relationship with Relic. I'm sure there are other forums that would encourage that behavior but for the love not here eh?

from my point of view the argument in the shoutbox was about whether or not CoH2 should be trying to enforce relic's NDA, not about whether or not it was acceptable to break the NDA. arguing that breaking the NDA is not acceptable is one argument for CoH2 banning people who seem to be in breach.

Correct me if I'm wrong but people were basically making the argument that it is okay to leak NDA protected material under the guise that "Coh2.org isn't Relic's personal NDA police." Or something stupid like that.

Youre wrong as always Ciez but its ok . If you are refering to Basilones post whch was locked it discussed coh2.orgs relationship with Relic, why coh2.org are so submissive. The answers to what the relationship is between them we will never know as its under NDA. Relics NDA that is.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/34323/coh2.org-enforcing-relic-nda%3D-lol

NDA leak, new faction is British faction

NDA leak, new faction is British faction

Where did you attain this top secret information!

Where did you attain this top secret information!

technically, that could be considered an NDA breach as nowhere does relic actually say that they're british.

technically, that could be considered an NDA breach as nowhere does relic actually say that they're british.

Bad troll attempt. 2/10

Well said Ciez. Perfectly logical.


And given that Relic takes NDA seriously, its perfectly natural that coh2.org would want to see it respected and continue its warm relationship with Relic.

I really dont get what all the fuss is about.

Bad troll attempt. 2/10

but i'm serious too. any points for that?

I respect the hell out of the staff and community here at CoH2.org, and the guys over at Relic. But with this NDA enforcement policy, I feel that the staff here are being taken advantage of. I know that you guys want to have a professional relationship with Relic, but if they REALLY cared about THEIR NDA, it shouldn't be up to you guys to go over every knok and cranny for NDA breaches, they should enforce it themselves.

This is what my post yesterday was supposed to say but came out horribly wrong.



I ponder a lot about the community and Relic. I've summarized my feelings into one image.



Interrupt it as you may. The NDA needs to be modified in a way that supports open communication and relationship building. By classifying everything as "confidential" information it prohibits both. Other similar businesses seem to function without such a harsh NDA. Why?

coh2.org shouldn't stress the relationship with Relic. I'm sure there are other forums that would encourage that behavior but for the love not here eh?

At this point, its like trying to communicate with North Korea over the DMZ.

Where did you attain this top secret information!

NDA, can't tell

but i'm serious too. any points for that?

No points. British units have been in the current code for quite a while and Relic has given plenty of hints to confirm. Putting 1 and 1 together isn't breaking an NDA, let alone an NDA which I didn't sign for an Alpha that I'm not a part of.

We're not the NDA Police but we won't tolerate blatant leaking of info either. COH2.ORG is a fan site, fans want the game to be a success. If you signed an NDA then its advisable to hold up your end of the contract. We as volunteers are not here to read between the lines and determine if you're possibly breaking a Relic NDA.

All we ask is that you use some common sense people.

No points. British units have been in the current code for quite a while and Relic has given plenty of hints to confirm. Putting 1 and 1 together isn't breaking an NDA, let alone an NDA which I didn't sign for an Alpha that I'm not a part of.

We're not the NDA Police but we won't tolerate blatant leaking of info either. COH2.ORG is a fan site, fans want the game to be a success. If you signed an NDA then its advisable to hold up your end of the contract. We as volunteers are not here to read between the lines and determine if you're possibly breaking a Relic NDA.

All we ask is that you use some common sense people.

What is the policy over the discussion of second hand knowledge? The people not in alpha and not bound by the NDA.

What if someone pretended to be like he was in the Alpha and typed made up information that seemed like a leak? Kappa I've seen some people do that and they just disappear

Look people, the mods here dont have to enforce it.

But here is what will happen if they dont:

Shit will get said, massive discussions will erupt, things will get taken out of context cos' interent and having half a picture, or less. Sooner or later Relic will realise they have a big pile of turd on their hands and will have to request mods here to clean up threads/posts and potentially ban users.

All this is a lot more trouble and work for the mods than if they just nipped it in the bud right at source, not to mention it also sours relationships with our developer.

It baffles me that people cant understand this.

Please no more "What if" questions or we'll be here all day. If its NDA info, or you think it could be, I suggest keeping it to yourself. It's pretty simple really.

Look people, the mods here dont have to enforce it.

But here is what will happen if they dont:

Shit will get said, massive discussions will erupt, things will get taken out of context cos' interent and having half a picture, or less. Sooner or later Relic will realise they have a big pile of turd on their hands and will have to request mods here to clean up threads/posts and potentially ban users.

All this is a lot more trouble and work for the mods than if they just nipped it in the bud right at source, not to mention it also sours relationships with our developer.

It baffles me that people cant understand this.

Like people said before, if Relic didn't have this overly sensitive NDA, none of this mess would be as severe.