The memoirs of Napalm

If you are just tuning in now this thread missed its mark badly and has been closed. Sometimes this Bear doesn't function very well without coffee. Apologizes for the confusion it caused as my message was unclear.

I ponder a lot about the community and Relic. I've summarized my feelings into one image.



Interrupt it as you may. The NDA needs to be modified in a way that supports open communication and relationship building. By classifying everything as "confidential" information it prohibits both. Other similar businesses seem to function without such a harsh NDA. Why?

Much rawr

Napalm

I didn't vote for you and I find the audacity that you would install yourself as a liaison hilarious after you and your ilk abused alpha testers for issues in the game when ultimately they had no say on what went into the game and also there are many other people who I would appoint who have had a massive hand in contributing to the scene.

Cheers and thanks for the post.

I do believe that Relic is getting better.

And, honestly, this is all a bit of cheeky fun. The camaraderie is strong here.

I do believe that Relic is getting better.

Me too. Lets encourage them to keep down this path.

thanks Napalm.

I didn't vote for you and I find the audacity that you would install yourself as a liaison hilarious after you and your ilk abused alpha testers for issues in the game when ultimately they had no say on what went into the game and also there are many other people who I would appoint who have had a massive hand in contributing to the scene.

Well put.

Napalm the whole "lets interact with the company to help them improve their product" approach has tried and failed. You aren't breaking any new ground here. The top coh1 experts had a private forum here for discussing coh2 design with Relic in its early days, and even though some of the Relic people agreed with what they had to say it was futile because it wasn't consistent with the vision that the more senior Relic employees had for their game. Way back in 2013 Reborn had really close ties to Relic, Eagleheart regularly came on our ventrilo and talked to us about concerns and he made several changes as a direct result from his interaction specifically with us. Pqumsieh came around a few times as well, but mainly we interacted with Matt who could only do so much and we're glad he did. I don't really know what all you've done for improving coh2 but as far as I can gather you've mainly reiterated some concerns that get said 50 times per day here, basically playing the role of a middle man. Though Reborn (and other people too) have made significant contributions, changing the game for the better as much as we possibly could, the reason I never went to Relic is distance and money. I think it is pretty arrogant to self proclaim yourself as some sort of community ambassador because you, being a Canadian, are more able to just casually drop by Relic HQ. Other people have contributed just as much or more to the game without going to Vancouver, just because you met them face to face isn't an automatic +1000 community contribution brownie points.

Napalm the whole "lets interact with the company to help them improve their product" approach has tried and failed. You aren't breaking any new ground here.

I suppose I'm not ready to give up. Given the history of Reborn you described I'd say the model worked pretty well. While all of the ideas may not have been adopted some were, correct?

Basilone -- I can understand the frustration of community members who's attempts at influencing Relic in the past were less than successful (at least in their eyes).

What I don't understand is why you would post something that discourages others from trying? If you like the game and want it improved, keep trying right?

Napalm -- While I respect your position in the community, might want to be careful with your claim to "community liason". It obviously annoys some people especially since it somewhat smacks of entitlement and is AT BEST unofficial.

This is the point where I wonder if the famous "Let the Community Balance the Game" approach that was taken for the last COH patch was not a mistake; as it created an false expectation that COH2 would be developed in same manner.

Napalm -- While I respect your position in the community, might want to be careful with your claim to "community liason". It obviously annoys some people especially since it somewhat smacks of entitlement and is AT BEST unofficial.

Correct. I didn't foresee the fallback over that the use of that word. Going to change it now but I fear the course is already set now

Napalm great post well done truly hope that the community can actually be more fun and less trolling and flaming but great work !!

Sure NDA could maybe need a touch up. But ultimately many people have been screwed over in the past. And when someone screws you against your will, going back and putting your snout between their butt cheeks sends the wrong signal.

Not saying piss and moan is something you should do, you shouldn't. And some questions are stupid and deserve no response. But we must be open to the fact that Relic have treated people very bad in the past, and when they do voicing your grievance in a firm, steady, professional and polite manner is the way to go.

Neither responding by brushing it away and going with it or responding by childish temper tantrums are good ways of going forward.

I personally think the NDA sucks. The main reason for it is that I've seen games in which the NDA is way better and really progresses the game.

If we have to wait 6 months for a 'small' patch I feel gardened by Relic. And hard also.

When there is something broken (PTRS) relic waits already over a month to fix it. Why can't they do it a bit faster and garden the communitiy less.

Edit:

Next to it, it would be nice to have more responce from Relic on this forum, so we feel that they read our stuff and think with us. Some ideas are great, others are complete crap. But the same will happen in a development team.

Nepotism 2 stronk
Corporate culture 2 stronk
Ego / Pride 2 stronk
what do we nerf D:

Relic will never change their policies on NDA or amount and quality of patches lol. No need to beat a dead horse.

Napalm, you are my hero.

Personally, I feel that with the way CoH2 was advertised, what was ultimately delivered, and how it's been developed since, has had much to do with THQs demise.

The game that Relic was developing under THQ was ultimately not the game that was released under SEGA. Many of the advertised features of the game that people ostensibly pre-ordered the game for (side armor anyone?) were not and have never been, realized. Mud tech, for instance, took months to make it into the game, despite being an advertised (or at least much talked about) feature.

It's for this reason I've always felt that this NDA was here for a reason. People had already spent money on the unfinished game that SEGA was acquiring. There could've been some serious legal ramifications if SEGA didn't play their cards right (which they did) to insulate themselves from the fallout of acquiring the franchise and the changes in CoH2's development.

Many other games would have never even been released. We were actually rather lucky that CoH2 ever saw the light of day.

Any initiative dat has a goal of creating "master group" aka "expert group" aka "closed group" aka "reborn butt buddies group" aka "bear butt budies group" is fundamentally flawed.

Time after time again, it was proven that relic does not listen to individuals and closed groups. What relic is listening are the numbers and analysis of much wider audience feedback and their OWN vision.

Being a bit of a math nerd I'd say looking at the numbers is a good thing.

Also, you wanna be a butt buddy with me?

PS: They are listening. Just takes time to get there.