Axis Goliath

What

In every single thing you pointed out wehr is superior except early game

Why do you always have to bring in doctrines? Because soviets sure do have shocks-guards-120-is2-t3485 commander so they can be better in every situation and aspect

Really?
Why do i bring in doctrines?
Tellme how many soviet players do u fight without doctrines?None.
So comparing without doctrines is laughable and useless.

The one problem with demo charges, it is more effective against smaller squads. It's why they are so effective against Wehr. So even if you were to add some kind of demos to Wehr/OKW, it still wouldn't be as effective as it is against Axis just because allied squads are bigger. Allied squads would have a better chance of surviving.


But in all seriousness, I think demos are an unnecessary crutch. I think it should be used for it's intended purpose, booby trapping buildings or trying to blow up that pesky bridge.

Really?
Why do i bring in doctrines?
Tellme how many soviet players do u fight without doctrines?None.
So comparing without doctrines is laughable and useless.

You completely missed the point, again, which is: doctrines do not allow soviets to have elite infantry, arty and good armor at the same time. Crying about shocks and guards, then about 120, then about IS2 is rather amusing.

But custom commanders, here we go

You completely missed the point, again, which is: doctrines do not allow soviets to have elite infantry, arty and good armor at the same time. Crying about shocks and guards, then about 120, then about IS2 is rather amusing.

But custom commanders, here we go

Its almost certain soviet will pick a commander with elite inf plus iwin is-2/t-34/85 or PTRS cons bullshit.
Every match u will largely get guards/shocks and is-2.
Talking soviets without them is like talking abt phantom faction.

Its almost certain soviet will pick a commander with elite inf plus iwin is-2/t-34/85 or PTRS cons bullshit.
Every match u will largely get guards/shocks and is-2.
Talking soviets without them is like talking abt phantom faction.

Yeah, soviets shouldn't use those stupid doctrines and instead build those scalable non doc infantry, viable medium armor and stock heavy. Shame those players don't do that

Yeah, soviets shouldn't use those stupid doctrines and instead build those scalable non doc infantry, viable medium armor and stock heavy. Shame those players don't do that

Are you seriously implying that A. Soviets were designed without commanders in mind and that B. OKW actually has mediums tanks.

You completely missed the point, again, which is: doctrines do not allow soviets to have elite infantry, arty and good armor at the same time. Crying about shocks and guards, then about 120, then about IS2 is rather amusing.

But custom commanders, here we go

Guard motor has elite infantry, arty (on-map), and good armor. Shock rifle has elite infantry, arty (off-map) and good armor.

Are you seriously implying that A. Soviets were designed without commanders in mind and that B. OKW actually has mediums tanks.

Because NKVD Disruption Tactics got made, I can't see why not.

Guard motor has elite infantry, arty (on-map), and good armor. Shock rifle has elite infantry, arty (off-map) and good armor.

I don't consider mortars as arty piece, even those heavy ones

Flame barrage doesn't hurt vehicles

These are considered most viable and versatile commanders though, you are right about their relative power to other commanders

Are you seriously implying that A. Soviets were designed without commanders in mind and that B. OKW actually has mediums tanks.

A. Yes because at that time faction was totally different, also I cant understand why you keep forcing that opinion as canon when relic never said that
B. Gardening no, never said that, you are forgetting that if sovs go t3 then t34-76 are best non doctrinal armor they got, while OKW which lacks mediums can counter even heaviest armor with panters or kt

I don't consider mortars as arty piece, even those heavy ones

Flame barrage doesn't hurt vehicles

These are considered most viable and versatile commanders though, you are right about their relative power to other commanders



A. Yes because at that time faction was totally different, also I cant understand why you keep forcing that opinion as canon when relic never said that
B. Gardening no, never said that, you are forgetting that if sovs go t3 then t34-76 are best non doctrinal armor they got, while OKW which lacks mediums can counter even heaviest armor with panters or kt

A. Yes Relic has repeatably said Soviets are designed around call in's and rely on them, if you haven't picked that up yet well then maybe you should pay attention more. Or do you think a majority of soviet commanders come with call in's just cause'?

b. The heaviest armor IS the KT, people love to whine about Axis having better tanks when the reality is just that Axis has more expensive tanks and because cost is directly related to performance it means Axis has the better tanks because they are paying the most for them.

If Relic wants to have a blob-free game

Oooh that will be difficult. Considering building more than one of the same unit is eligble for blobbing accusations.

Oh, did you miss the video? Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhemmEYZlN8. CaptainPrice do this every game and he has gotten to rank 10 as USF with it.

But did you see what he did? When he got in to trouble, he split his units up, half went to the left of the little shed, the other half around the right side, thus negating your firepower. He manouvered.

The tactic is lame, I agree, yet a sturmpanzer 4 always slaughters them in combination with something that pinns them. Since most maps have huge chokepoints, you can funnel them in a certain path with barbed wire. Have 2 mg42s with a sturmpanzer 4 and their blob is useless. Don't forget your lovely strafing doctrines.

As okw, well... the options are limited, blobbing in return is useless since the patch and flack halftrack and luchs are worthless against such masses. Your only option would be to put a strategic schwere HQ somewhere and cover it very wisely. Flack halftrucks and luchs work best in pairs, yet with your limited fuel income, this might be a problem to get and maintain.

USF is horrible with its blobbing, just wait for the British to arrive, it will probably get a lot worse.

Oooh that will be difficult. Considering building more than one of the same unit is eligble for blobbing accusations.

I had 2 Guards and 3 Cons near end game (Along with ZiS and T3) and my enemy was like "OH EM GEE YOU BLUBBER". What am I gonna do? Not bring in Cons early game?

I had 2 Guards and 3 Cons near end game (Along with ZiS and T3) and my enemy was like "OH EM GEE YOU BLUBBER". What am I gonna do? Not bring in Cons early game?

Having lots of one unit type is "spam"

having lots of units in one area in a big group is "blobbing"



I don't see a problem with spamming. I just hate the fact that units can be lumped up without too much fear of reprisal.



So anyway, did you have a big blob wandering round murdering things?


Also, when players lose they tend to say anything to make the victory seem cheaper so don't worry about it if you weren't blobbing)

Stuff

It's off topic but:
No I don't blob, and I try not to spam either. And I lost the game and the guy was the kind who rage even when they win.

Having lots of one unit type is "spam"

having lots of units in one area in a big group is "blobbing"



I don't see a problem with spamming. I just hate the fact that units can be lumped up without too much fear of reprisal.



So anyway, did you have a big blob wandering round murdering things?


Also, when players lose they tend to say anything to make the victory seem cheaper so don't worry about it if you weren't blobbing)

Concentrating your forces for a breakthrough is one of the most basic tactical options available to you in pretty much every RTS.

It's not like some of the factions have much options open to them. Soviets have a plethora of infantry options, but Ostheer is stuck with 2 normally (neither of which is particularly able to be spammed), and USF with 1 normally. As OKW if you go a doctrine like Fort, Scavenge, or Spec Op's the majority of your army is going to have to be Volks.

Speaking from experience a lot of people whine when you get several Volks, but honestly what is the OKW player supposed to do?

Concentrating your forces for a breakthrough is one of the most basic tactical options available to you in pretty much every RTS.

It is true about most RTS games.

However (and by the way, I think we share the same opinion hwere, please understand I'm not saying you're wrong) CoH1 was great in that, regarding blobbing, it moved away from pretty much every RTS. (NB CoH1 also had a serious issue with Blobbing in the mid-late game. Early game was glorious though)



I'd like to differentiate "blobbing" and "concentrating your forces"

Blobbing is when there are a lot of units in close proximity that can all simultaneously focus-fire on single enemy units one by one. Check a Sprice game to see how well this works. My personal feeling is that this overly-simplifies the game and reduces the enjoyability. That is subjective and a matter of taste so if other people prefer the blobbing-type games, fine. it seems there are many of them, I always hope CoH2 will become an alternative.


"Concentrating your forces" is when you have a lot of units in one area but spread out. One squad will be used to draw fire, another will be used to suppress enemy reinforcements, another will be used to flank an MG so that a fourth unit can take out the enemy AT gun or forece it to move back so that your armour can move in and do some damage.



I always enjoyed that dance of units moving around to the exact location needed to be to pull off a beautiful flank and the opposite dance performed by the defender, moving units to fend off your attack. And then the counter-attack and counter-defence. It can be so rewarding.


In CoH2 this is not so necessary. Success can be achieved by running in a large blob, picking off units one by one. This is less fun to my mind. CoH2 has the potential to incorporate game mechanics that will make a mind-blowing revolutionary RTS. It already has True-sight, Suppression, Cover.


TLDR - the game would be spectacularly good if blobbing was made much more difficult.

Well the (unrealized) idea with every faction was that they'd be spending their resources fielding a variety of units. Vehicles, halftracks, light tanks, assault guns and tank destroyers were intended to be used alongside infantry and medium/heavy tanks.

Problem is, most units are just specific counters for other units, or are available after their counters are available. For the most part, all vehicles are available AFTER anti-tank guns can be fielded.

On the other hand, many of the counters for infantry, solo or massed, require a fuel investment or simply aren't available until the later stages of the game. Much of this has to do with HMGs being rarely capable of suppressing infantry before being decrewed or naded to the point that flanking isn't even necessary.

As such, flanking is usually an ineffective tactic that takes more micro than it's worth. Especially when two masses of infantry are fighting each other. The blob that spreads out usually loses overall because it's easier to focus fire flanking squads.

Until infantry can be suppressed reliably and anti-tank measures aren't a dime a dozen and available before halftracks, blobs are going to dominate the hell out of the game.