Remove free lieutenant
1 May 2015, 14:40 PM
#61
Posts: 270
Good idea Aero, Zooks should be tied to Cpt though.
I'll try again.
The source of my frustrations that should be removed
1 May 2015, 15:03 PM
#62
8 
Posts: 2470
Then don't push back tech,just remove the lieutenant.USF player will have to actually buy another rifle to keep numerical parity and no insta jump to m20 because -''hey i got free numerical superiority via lieutenant.Thanks relic!''
that's fine with me; my issue isn't with USF staying OP it's with them being interesting and fun to play. i only said that because a lot of people were talking about pushing back the tech.
1 May 2015, 15:21 PM
#63
Posts: 1705
Ostheer auto-unlocks panzerfaust, grenades, LMGs, shreks and all their infantry units for a total investment of 400mp and 80 fuel with 20 starting fuel.
USF needs something to counter-balance this fact. Either the free LTD stays, or the grenades/zooks/BARs upgrades need to be removed and unlocked for free as part of teching as the Ostheer get them. Otherwise we'll get the same fiasco as we got with Ostheer vs Soviet teching at release, except this time there are no doctrinal units to fill the gaps.
Agreed.Let usf auto unlock BAR and bazooka(give BAR to one officer tier and Bazooka to other,that way will make choice more strategic).Free lieutenant gotta go.
Because wehr free unlock means nothing as it doesn't have resources to use them,nor numbers to make an advantageous situation out of it.Just loses huge MP.
1 May 2015, 15:32 PM
#64
Posts: 612
Agreed.Let usf auto unlock BAR and bazooka(give BAR to one officer tier and Bazooka to other,that way will make choice more strategic).Free lieutenant gotta go.
Because wehr free unlock means nothing as it doesn't have resources to use them,nor numbers to make an advantageous situation out of it.Just loses huge MP.
Well you see, giving bazookas to the captain tier would be a terrible idea. The two people who get bazookas out of need only do so because there is no other alternative in liutenant teir for AT. Now you want to give it for "free" to the captain tier except they have to pay 80 Fuel to get it?
1 May 2015, 15:36 PM
#65
1 
Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
I'm not paying 200 mp 50 fuel for a BAR unlock then having to buy the LT himself too on top of that, LOL
1 May 2015, 15:36 PM
#66
Posts: 1705
Well you see, giving bazookas to the captain tier would be a terrible idea. The two people who get bazookas out of need only do so because there is no other alternative in liutenant teir for AT. Now you want to give it for "free" to the captain tier except they have to pay 80 Fuel to get it?
Then give it to lieutenant tier.Just get rid of this first tech up free unit.Second tech free units can stay,i don't care.Its the first one that breaks the balance.
1 May 2015, 15:39 PM
#67
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
I'm not paying 200 mp 50 fuel for a BAR unlock then having to buy the LT himself too on top of that, LOL
You aren't. You are paying 200mp + 50fu to gain access to M20, AAHT, and M2HB. The LT would be a unit built from this tier, not a free unit.
Though I think that LT should unlock bazooka and CPT should unlock BAR.
1 May 2015, 16:16 PM
#68
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
I'm not paying 200 mp 50 fuel for a BAR unlock then having to buy the LT himself too on top of that, LOL
That is literally the point of teching as a system, you pay to unlock stuff you then have to buy. When I'm playing Ostheer I'm forced to pay for battlegroup phases I don't want to pay for in order to get to units, while a USF player doesn't need to buy captain to get Shermans.
1 May 2015, 17:22 PM
#69
1 Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
That is literally the point of teching as a system, you pay to unlock stuff you then have to buy. When I'm playing Ostheer I'm forced to pay for battlegroup phases I don't want to pay for in order to get to units, while a USF player doesn't need to buy captain to get Shermans.
Kk, so let's make USF tech linear like ostheer,sovs too.
Do you really want fucking mirror matches that badly? There's nothing wrong with how Americans tech and get a free unit.
The LT himself is fine. He's just a rifle squad that you could buy yourself at the same time,(try doing 3 rifle, then tech bars and buy 4th rifle and equip with BAR,literally what the LT squad is..ffs)
Now that would also push M20 arrival back Quite a bit,
Instead of doing all that...
Push the M20 back by directly raising its fuel cost by 10-15 so 222 can come at the same fucking time all the time so ostheer can counterplay.
Saying the LT himself is OP is stupid as all hell. No one that knows anything will tell you that the LT himself is OP besides biased trolls like austerlitz.
Now will everyone say the fast M20 is a bitch? Yes. Because it is. It comes too early. LT comes at the same time as LMG Gren. If that isn't balanced I don't know what is.
Play USF lt tier while waiting an extra 10 fuel before building your m20 and you'll see what I'm saying.
1 May 2015, 17:44 PM
#70
Posts: 270
@Cookie: We are heading towards symmetric balance. Deal with it.
Yes, LT himself is OP as hell. Free bar and thompson combined with G. That's just retarded. All for free.
Whenever I play as OST, I want to be able to capture points and gather resources too. Not to be pushed back or totally wiped by so much combined DPS available so early.
Yes, LT himself is OP as hell. Free bar and thompson combined with G. That's just retarded. All for free.
Whenever I play as OST, I want to be able to capture points and gather resources too. Not to be pushed back or totally wiped by so much combined DPS available so early.
I'll try again.
The source of my frustrations that should be removed
1 May 2015, 17:48 PM
#71
1 Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
@Cookie: We are heading towards symmetric balance. Deal with it.
Symmetric balance and symmetric design are two different things
And captain troll, I said the 222 should be ostheer counterpart to M20. That is infact supporting symmetric balance,Moron.
And did I not say that you could get a BARd rifle squad at the same time LT arrives?
1 May 2015, 17:52 PM
#72
Posts: 1484
Shouldn't OKW pay for the "Free trucks" then?
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1 May 2015, 17:58 PM
#73
Posts: 270
Trucks don't Wipe@Snipe. The free LT does.
I'll try again.
The source of my frustrations that should be removed
1 May 2015, 18:00 PM
#74
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Shouldn't OKW pay for the "Free trucks" then?
OKW already pays with their resource penalty.
One of the problems I feel is that USF vs OKW feels pretty balanced (except rifle company on some maps), but USF vs Ostheer is only balanced if you pick CAS or Mech Assault as Ostheer due to LMG spam and call-in tanks respectively. Changing USF teching might make USF more balanced vs the other Ostheer doctrines, but it will make them underpowered vs CAS and Mech Assault.
1 May 2015, 20:22 PM
#75
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Shouldn't OKW pay for the "Free trucks" then?
OKW is paying as much as every other faction is for teching with the resource penalty. 60 fuel for t1 and t2 and 120 for T3. (adjusting for the reduced income of course).
The issue with USF is that it's cheap, non-linear, and encourages rushing instead of more methodical tactical play.
Kk, so let's make USF tech linear like ostheer,sovs too.
Yes? This is a good idea.
Do you really want fucking mirror matches that badly? There's nothing wrong with how Americans tech and get a free unit.
Mirror teching =/= mirror matches. There is absolutely something wrong with USF getting a free unit ON TOP of getting the cheapest teching.
2 May 2015, 00:54 AM
#76
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
OKW is paying as much as every other faction is for teching with the resource penalty. 60 fuel for t1 and t2 and 120 for T3. (adjusting for the reduced income of course).
55-110 if you are gonna do the stupid convertion.
.73 not .66
Changes i would test:
-I'll rather have a more meaningful unit on the LT. Make it something a bit more different rather than just a Riflemen with sprint (on vet) and a Thompson/bar
-Make tech unlock bar/zook
-Zook still needs to be cheaper
-Reduce the fuel cost for Cpt and increase a bit the cost for LT.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
2 May 2015, 01:18 AM
#77
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
-I'll rather have a more meaningful unit on the LT. Make it something a bit more different rather than just a Riflemen with sprint (on vet) and a Thompson/bar
Me too. Captain's On Me! and Supervision abilities are interesting enough, LT is pretty drab.
2 May 2015, 01:42 AM
#78
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
55-110 if you are gonna do the stupid convertion.
.73 not .66
Changes i would test:
-I'll rather have a more meaningful unit on the LT. Make it something a bit more different rather than just a Riflemen with sprint (on vet) and a Thompson/bar
-Make tech unlock bar/zook
-Zook still needs to be cheaper
-Reduce the fuel cost for Cpt and increase a bit the cost for LT.
I wouldn't call the entire point of OKW stupid. And every faction getting the same basic income is irrelevant because it still leaves OKW at a .66 disadvantage because they are getting less from the actual points they are capturing and holding.
I don't get the insane idea people on this forum have that OKW's fuel penalty doesn't matter because ~reasons~ and that it shouldn't be taken into account when discussing teching.
The fact that the basic trucks are 60 and advanced one is 120 puts OKW at the same level as the other factions teching cost wise, but nobody rushes T4/3 for Soviets or Ost anymore because of call in's and the fact you can coast on T1/T2. USF has no incentives not to just tech rush as fast as they can.
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