Balance of power has shifted to Allies in 4v4AT (imo)

Again, if you let enemy to abuse pop cap you already have lost.

What the fuck? When did exit crew button becomes I win button?

Why do you think Priests are the most problematic things as Iv highlighted before? Because they are a safe investment, you won't lose them and you don't have to pay the population cap for them.

So what you are saying, is that the US player is going through the game, in an even one loosing stuff, and slowly converting his army to Priests 15 minutes into the game? that would still take him a while to over cap himself, and with all that army supply in indirect there is a distinct armor advantage you should have.

There is also the point and click counter of Cas, a single sweep kills them.

I sincerely believe you must be getting wrecked just as much as you believe what you are saying

What the fuck? When did exit crew button becomes I win button?

I think you are smart enough to understand meaning of this, right?

But nevertheless I will explain you.

If you let you enemy get 100 pop cap, and he still is able to decrew vehicles to get even more tanks, you already lost the game.

Guard motor
Shock motor
Counterattack tactics
Mechanized support
Shock rifle
Advanced Warfare
Terror Tactics
Shock Army

+Anti-Inf
+Armored Assault
+Sov Combined Arms
+Tank Hunter

Assault Support
CAS
Lighting war
Spearhead
Mechanized Assault
Luftwaffe support
Fortified Armor
Jeagar Armor
Osttruppen

+Elite Troops
+German Mech
+Storm

Fixed for you

Also, it doesn't matter, because in serious game it would be

Axis:
1)Wehr Cas or Luftwaffe
2)Wehr Ele
3)OKW Spec Ops
4)Whatever Whatever, most likely Wehr with ANY tiger doc

Allies:

1)Sov t2 gurad motor
2)Sov t2 Isu
3)Sov t1 Is-2s
4)USF Airborne


Axis have free faction/commander pick, and highly flexible build orders, while allies predictable from beginning till very end.

Unless you're playing in a team game where it can be pretty common that you reach pop cap.

If we're talking 1v1s, usually games are decided long before players even have the chance to reach 100 pop cap so it's effectively a non issue for 1v1s and most 2v2s.

3v3s and 4v4s often find players hitting pop cap towards the endgame if any sort of defensive play has occurred. A player with good unit preservation is often making the decision on which unit not to reinforce or outright sacrifice to free up the 1-5 pop cap for their Tiger or IS-2.

USF players, which incidentally do not have a big heavy call in, can easily bypass this issue by decrewing any of their vehicles. This can have extremely significant strategic implications, but players of 1v1s and 2v2s only won't ever face them.

+Anti-Inf
+Armored Assault
+Sov Combined Arms
+Tank Hunter



+Elite Troops
+German Mech
+Storm

Fixed for you

Also, it doesn't matter, because in serious game it would be

Axis:
1)Wehr Cas or Luftwaffe
2)Wehr Ele
3)OKW Spec Ops
4)Whatever Whatever, most likely Wehr with ANY tiger doc

Allies:

1)Sov t2 gurad motor
2)Sov t2 Isu
3)Sov t1 Is-2s
4)USF Airborne


Axis have free faction/commander pick, and highly flexible build orders, while allies predictable from beginning till very end.

Your list makes no sense, why would you cross out Terror Tactics and add anti-infantry tactics which is just Terror tactics but shit. Armored Assault has zero elite infantry, and I didn't add tank hunters just because it's a gimmick doctrine.

The shock ISU is great, the counterattack tactics is still good (if you build your B4 in your own base your an idiot and won't hit anything). Shock army has 120's, shocks, and 120mm mortars, and the anti infantry strafe, if you coordinate with your team mates they can make up for your lack of call in armor.

And USF Airborne isn't the only good 4's doctrines, Priests as mentioned earlier are good for smashing OKW HQs and denying space.

Your list makes no sense, why would you cross out Terror Tactics and add anti-infantry tactics which is just Terror tactics but shit.

Coz static artillery emplacements worthless against CAS or Luftwaffe?

Armored Assault has zero elite infantry

And what?

I didn't add tank hunters just because it's a gimmick doctrine.

Being gimmick not makes it bad.

The shock ISU is great, the counterattack tactics is still good (if you build your B4 in your own base your an idiot and won't hit anything). Shock army has 120's, shocks, and 120mm mortars, and the anti infantry strafe, if you coordinate with your team mates they can make up for your lack of call in armor.

No, completely overshadowed by doctrines i listed. B4 would be bombed by CAS before it inflict any serious damage, better to play without commander then go b4 against CAS.

And USF Airborne isn't the only good 4's doctrines, Priests as mentioned earlier are good for smashing OKW HQs and denying space.

Airborne simply best USF doctrine. In 3 sov + 1 USF scenarios USF player should go airborne every game.

porygon taking the reins from alex!!!

Coz static artillery emplacements worthless against CAS or Luftwaffe?



And what?



Being gimmick not makes it bad.



No, completely overshadowed by doctrines i listed. B4 would be bombed by CAS before it inflict any serious damage, better to play without commander then go b4 against CAS.



Airborne simply best USF doctrine. In 3 sov + 1 USF scenarios USF player should go airborne every game.

Most people don't expect static emplacement artillery anymore since the B4 change, and are unprepared to see people still use it or make use of the ML-20.

Not to mention terror doctrine has access to fear propaganda AND the ML-20 allowing you to hit the double whammy of forcing a retreat then smashing an HQ.

The no elite infantry from armored assault makes it garbo because you need to capitalize on Allies early game power, and T34/85's AND IS2's in the same doctrine is dumb and redundant when the other IS2 and T34/85 commanders are much better anyway.

The Shock ISU is better on smaller maps.

And Airborne isn't by far the best and only doctrine you have to go in 4's, for example Recon Support is great for the artillery call in.

Not all doctrines are equal, but pretending Allies lack for viable commanders in them is laughable when both sides are shoe horned into taking a select few commanders if they want to play optimally.

I think you are smart enough to understand meaning of this, right?

But nevertheless I will explain you.

If you let you enemy get 100 pop cap, and he still is able to decrew vehicles to get even more tanks, you already lost the game.

Not sure if you are talking on about about 1v1 or you are saying in general, but if you mean in general, no bro, you are wrong.

This is one example why:

http://www.coh2.org/replay/30360/relic-this-shit-has-to-be-fixed

Also, it's too easy to reach and exceed pop cap at larger team games

Edit: I just played a game:

http://www.coh2.org/replay/34140/vet5-isg-gg-at-minsk

and usf guy used the same cheese, but we didn't lose the game already!

Most people don't expect static emplacement artillery anymore since the B4 change, and are unprepared to see people still use it or make use of the ML-20.

On 1k rating? Combat engies spam can win games there. I thought we discuss at games in this thread.

Not to mention terror doctrine has access to fear propaganda AND the ML-20 allowing you to hit the double whammy of forcing a retreat then smashing an HQ.

How is fear prop+recon+incendiary from anti-inf is worse?

The no elite infantry from armored assault makes it garbo because you need to capitalize on Allies early game power, and T34/85's AND IS2's in the same doctrine is dumb and redundant when the other IS2 and T34/85 commanders are much better anyway.

Soviets have barely any spare mp to build elite infantry until they on back foot or stale for call-ins. Is2 is better for ant-inf purposes, t34-85 is for flanks. How other one is2 commander better than this one with self-repair is beyond me. Armored Assault is ultimate late game commander. Best one if you want to have good tanks in late game with fast repairs. And i use t34-85 and is-2 at the same time quite often.

The Shock ISU is better on smaller maps.

ISU on smaller maps? GL getting reversed from panther flanks or hitting infantry through short blockers everywhere. And what 4v4 map is small? Lienne? Huntgren?

And Airborne isn't by far the best and only doctrine you have to go in 4's, for example Recon Support is great for the artillery call in.

So you will trade paratroopers, which dominate infantry mid to late game and p 47 strafes for one artillerry call-in from unit which dies from looking at lmg grens? С'mon.

Not all doctrines are equal, but pretending Allies lack for viable commanders in them is laughable when both sides are shoe horned into taking a select few commanders if they want to play optimally.

So you agree with

Also, it doesn't matter, because in serious game it would be

Axis:
1)Wehr Cas or Luftwaffe
2)Wehr Ele
3)OKW Spec Ops
4)Whatever Whatever, most likely Wehr with ANY tiger doc

Allies:

1)Sov t2 gurad motor
2)Sov t2 Isu
3)Sov t1 Is-2s
4)USF Airborne


Axis have free faction/commander pick, and highly flexible build orders, while allies predictable from beginning till very end.

And i am not "pretending". If my opinion is not worth enough, look at opinions of other good 4v4/3v3 players there. They will all say the same. Ohme wrote damn book about it.

On 1k rating? Combat engies spam can win games there. I thought we discuss at games in this thread.



How is fear prop+recon+incendiary from anti-inf is worse?



Soviets have barely any spare mp to build elite infantry until they on back foot or stale for call-ins. Is2 is better for ant-inf purposes, t34-85 is for flanks. How other one is2 commander better than this one with self-repair is beyond me. Armored Assault is ultimate late game commander. Best one if you want to have good tanks in late game with fast repairs. And i use t34-85 and is-2 at the same time quite often.



ISU on smaller maps? GL getting reversed from panther flanks or hitting infantry through short blockers everywhere. And what 4v4 map is small? Lienne? Huntgren?



So you will trade paratroopers, which dominate infantry mid to late game and p 47 strafes for one artillerry call-in from unit which dies from looking at lmg grens? С'mon.



So you agree with



And i am not "pretending". If my opinion is not worth enough, look at opinions of other good 4v4/3v3 players there. They will all say the same. Ohme wrote damn book about it.

I never said I disagree. But it seems like there is double standards being applied here with people legit suggesting that playing with Axis stock units is optimal or desired when fighting allied doctrine units.

Remember; USF's best units are almost all stock much like OKW. Except OKW has to rely on call in infantry.