What I don't like in Soviets

Shock Rifle is a bit too strong. Too many powerful abilities.

But what I hate and love most about Soviets is ISU on Minsk Pocket #Kreygasm

Tier 3:
sovs 275 manpower, 90 fuel
germs 160 manpower, 25 fuel

Uhm...no?

You pay 240MP + 120FU for T3 as Soviets + 160MP for T1/T2.

Wehrmacht teching costs to reach T3:

Battle Phase 1: 200 mp | 55 fu
Battle Phase 2: 200 mp | 60 fu

T2 building (I include this because you'll always go for it): 120 mp | 15 fu
T3 building: 160 mp | 25 fu

= 680MP + 155 Fuel

The problem with the Soviets is well known, they are crap without call-ins, very powerful (and circumstantially OP) with their call ins. It makes them kinda boring to play.

The fact that they can spam cons (which is effective and thanks to the PTRS buff your Cons scale pretty well) and then call in and win the game is only because of blobbing viability. All 4 factions can blob at certain stages of the game, some sooner some later.

How to fix Soviets (And by fix I mean both make them more balanced and more fun to play)? IMO:

- Fix the whole blobbing issue (Don't wanna derail the thread because there are other threads to discuss crowd control suggestions).
- Buff some of the stock units so you can rely on them and make them more appealing.
- Nerf (mostly timing and a little price increase) the call-ins (The call-in meta and suggested fixes are another issue which we are all aware of)

PS:
What makes me sad is that a lot of these suggestions have been discussed countless times, in countless threads and posts and there have been enough ForumWars, but who cares?

@MajorBloodnok Why queen is banned? He was insulted by cuople of noobs who started spreading idiotic statements first.
Queen is top 500 player. Unlike those provocators.

Please do not discuss individual posters predicaments on the open forums.

Thanks

The problem with the Soviets is well known, they are crap without call-ins, very powerful (and circumstantially OP) with their call ins. It makes them kinda boring to play.

The fact that they can spam cons (which is effective and thanks to the PTRS buff your Cons scale pretty well) and then call in and win the game is only because of blobbing viability. All 4 factions can blob at certain stages of the game, some sooner some later.

How to fix Soviets (And by fix I mean both make them more balanced and more fun to play)? IMO:

- Fix the whole blobbing issue (Don't wanna derail the thread because there are other threads to discuss crowd control suggestions).
- Buff some of the stock units so you can rely on them and make them more appealing.
- Nerf (mostly timing and a little price increase) the call-ins (The call-in meta and suggested fixes are another issue which we are all aware of)

PS:
What makes me sad is that a lot of these suggestions have been discussed countless times, in countless threads and posts and there have been enough ForumWars, but who cares?

If you're getting PTRS on your cons then you don't have any call-ins.

SU85, katyushja and T70 are good/decent, T34/76 is useful because it's a tank, albeit a crappy one. Halftrack is situational, SU-76 is worthless.

If you're getting PTRS on your cons then you don't have any call-ins.

SU85, katyushja and T70 are good/decent, T34/76 is useful because it's a tank, albeit a crappy one. Halftrack is situational, SU-76 is worthless.

I'm not gonna argue about the PTRS, I was just pointing out that late game blobbing is finally viable for Soviets since they get an upgrade.

About your next point, I don't simply mean to compare units. For example, SU85 is pretty good, specially in open maps without too many shot blockers, but that's not the problem. The problem is the performance of a tier as a whole. If you decide to go, let's say T3, your hands are tied with units which don't scale well and without call-ins you'll lose against a decent player. If you go T4, you'll have no breakthrough units and are forced to play a little passive. With T3 at least you can swarm the enemy with T34/76s.

The other factions don't have this problem as the Soviets do since they have better stock units.

If you cannot debate sensibly, it may be best to keep stumm. Otherwise, consequences may follow.

But only Axis get Stumms







I'll get me coat

And people say the Axis can't counter blobs

And people say the Axis can't counter blobs

Well for one the Sturmpanzer is retardly expensive and inaccurate, and second I can count the amount of people who play this game that regularly use the Sturmtiger on 1 hand.

What I don´t like in Soviets is that they are overpowered in 2v2.

Go from:

1) Expandable, cheap infantry hordes,
2) with a general ammunition flow and cheap mines,
3) to the best and most devastating artillery mid game, Kat + 120mm,
4) to superior armor late game. Yes, IS-2 and T-34/85 + mark vehicle are better than Tiger and Panther, ISU-152 is better than Elefant in its utility.

Two Soviets in the game on equal skill? = gg

What I don´t like in Soviets is that they are overpowered in 2v2.

Go from:

1) Expandable, cheap infantry hordes,
2) with a general ammunition flow and cheap mines,
3) to the best and most devastating artillery mid game, Kat + 120mm,
4) to superior armor late game. Yes, IS-2 and T-34/85 + mark vehicle are better than Tiger and Panther, ISU-152 is better than Elefant in its utility.

Two Soviets in the game on equal skill? = gg

+1

What I don´t like in Soviets is that they are overpowered in 2v2.

Go from:

1) Expandable, cheap infantry hordes,

Thats OKW volks.

2) with a general ammunition flow and cheap mines,

No real surprise here as mines are the only non doctrinal thing that soviets can spend the muni on next to demos.
Soviet players would love to have a choice to use that on various non doctrinal infantry weapon, light armor and tank upgrades, believe me. Munition float is meaningless if you have nothing to spend it on. Pick any doctrine with guards and you'll be munition starved.

3) to the best and most devastating artillery mid game, Kat + 120mm,

Thats OKW Stuka.

4) to superior armor late game. Yes, IS-2 and T-34/85 + mark vehicle are better than Tiger and Panther, ISU-152 is better than Elefant in its utility.

KT is the superior armor. Panther is the superior armor.
IS-2 overpowered Tiger and Panther anyway, so I don't see a reason why you are worked up about it-contrary to krupp steel religion, not everything that germans put tracks and cannon on was superior to soviet equivalents.
T34/85 is on pair with P4 in performance and surviability(more hp vs more armor).
OKW Mark target is better then sov one, cheaper and comes with 50 sight, 50 range 260 penetration tank, I'd consider that superior. Get ele or JT on field and ISU will be as good as 24 pop cap blockade that needs to stay back.

Two Soviets in the game on equal skill? = gg

Same could be said about OKW+ CAS Ost. Great synergies are not exclusive to allies you know.

What I don´t like in Soviets is that they are overpowered in 2v2.

Go from:

1) Expandable, cheap infantry hordes,
2) with a general ammunition flow and cheap mines,
3) to the best and most devastating artillery mid game, Kat + 120mm,
4) to superior armor late game. Yes, IS-2 and T-34/85 + mark vehicle are better than Tiger and Panther, ISU-152 is better than Elefant in its utility.

Two Soviets in the game on equal skill? = gg

IS-2 should be better than Tiger 1 and Panther

Its gun is still UP in terms of armour pen.

How does Sov have cheep infantry? when okw's is cheaper per performance

For example

Vetted volks will beat cons While costing less

Vetted fussiuliers will beat gaurds.. again, while costing less

Despite its strong armour configuration, the IS-2 tended to be an unspectacular performer in the AT department if you wanna go all historical. Heavy 2 piece ammunition, thus poor ROF, exarcerbated by an unspectacular trajectory and calibration issues and rather crappy situational awareness will do that to you.
Historical musings are completely irrelevant as far as this game is concerned, however. Butcher is quite right, at higher skillevels, double Soviets are the winning formula with the strongest synergies and squadwipe potential.

The problem is the performance of a tier as a whole. If you decide to go, let's say T3, your hands are tied with units which don't scale well and without call-ins you'll lose against a decent player. If you go T4, you'll have no breakthrough units and are forced to play a little passive.

+

Yeah thats what i wanna to say too. OKW T3 they can build light tank and heavy tanks out of one building.
Plus elite infantry out of it too. Its crazy.

If they give the same ability to sovs too, it would be T3 with t70, IS2 and guards.
It would be fair T3 micro battle.
Now OKW most likely requre less skill to play cuz their best units are so easily acccesible.

+

Yeah thats what i wanna to say too. OKW T3 they can build light tank and heavy tanks out of one building.
Plus elite infantry out of it too. Its crazy.

If they give the same ability to sovs too, it would be T3 with t70, IS2 and guards.
It would be fair T3 micro battle.
Now OKW most likely requre less skill to play cuz their best units are so easily acccesible.

OKW in no way requires less skill in 1v1 with the current patch. OKW now has to rely more on raketens, since shrecks are no longer the only muni upgrade. Blobbing is far more painful to OKW players now, due to the large investment lost if a volk Shrek dies.

If anything, OKW is the weakest 1v1 faction now. The buffs to ost t1/2 has made early game a lot easier for them, while us and sovs have strong early games and access to either fast medium armor or callins. OKW has to rely on either a flack track for early game power (which delays other tiers) or a heavy defensive build that just isn't viable vs. guards motor. (120mm)

This isn't to say that OKW is UP, it just means that OKW now has many tough choices to make in the early-mid game, but have good compensation in the form of cheap, multiroll tiers, vet 5, and powerful late game units.

They feel a lot more like the back foot faction they are meant to be.