it's only my idea.
I think, soviet is too dependent on the doctrine.
Typically there is a Guard infantry and Shock infantry.
Only shock infantry can against to PG in infantry battle.
and Guard infantry can against to flamethrower HT well.
so if soviet select shock infantry, cant against to flamethrower HT well.
and if soviet select guard infantry, cant agianst to PG well.
but german can build PG and flamethrower HT any time.
so soviet always stands at the crossroads of choice.
Of course, soviet has AT grenade, molotov, PPSH-con, and any other good units.
but sometimes they are not effective or too slow.
i cant speak english well. sorry. but maybe you can read it!!
Most important problem of soviet is 'Doctrine dependency'
- This thread is locked
30 May 2013, 01:07 AM
#1
Posts: 144
30 May 2013, 06:01 AM
#2
Posts: 39
It's an interesting point. But I don't think its something that needs changing rather something that the german players need to consider 
30 May 2013, 06:27 AM
#3
Posts: 255
i too would like some non doctrinal AT for infantry. currently there is only the AT nade which does very small damage to 80% of vehicles, the only one i can think of that it can destroy is the AC but thats about it.
30 May 2013, 07:48 AM
#4
Posts: 144
When i play against soviet,
if he choose Guard, i build some PG.
then, he can't kill my PG with conscript and Guard.
PG hasn't moving accuracy penalty. so they always move in combat.
so molotov and Guard's nade can't kill them.
and soviet MG has really small fire cone angle. so almost it's not effective.
soviet need any other unit against PG. for example sniper or T34.
but these unit micro is not easy...
if he choose Guard, i build some PG.
then, he can't kill my PG with conscript and Guard.
PG hasn't moving accuracy penalty. so they always move in combat.
so molotov and Guard's nade can't kill them.
and soviet MG has really small fire cone angle. so almost it's not effective.
soviet need any other unit against PG. for example sniper or T34.
but these unit micro is not easy...
30 May 2013, 08:20 AM
#5
Posts: 1820 | Subs: 2
I think you're too much stuck in the thinking of what u must use vs certain units.. try using combos of AT-nades, mines, guards, AT guns, even a mortar does a decent damage to the HT. The strat i do with soviets, has made me win almost every game since closed beta, wether it be PG spam or flamer HT.. AT nades + HMG is a nice combination of units that can counter t2.
30 May 2013, 09:30 AM
#6
Posts: 960
Try this:
Go whatever doctrine gives PPSHs.
Start game -> Spam Conscripts.
Built T1 -> Scout car + flamer engie -> kill MGs
Wait until ~8min -> T3. Wait until 11 min -> T34 spam.
You can now counter absolutely everything. If needed, back tech for mortar + AT gun. If REALLY needed go to T4 (rarely needed).
The PPSH conscripts should usually get equal kills with the Pgrens, but due to reinforcement cost, they'll win out. The tanks (usually Panzer IV or stug) will get killed by AT nades + T34, or just circle strafing.
Go whatever doctrine gives PPSHs.
Start game -> Spam Conscripts.
Built T1 -> Scout car + flamer engie -> kill MGs
Wait until ~8min -> T3. Wait until 11 min -> T34 spam.
You can now counter absolutely everything. If needed, back tech for mortar + AT gun. If REALLY needed go to T4 (rarely needed).
The PPSH conscripts should usually get equal kills with the Pgrens, but due to reinforcement cost, they'll win out. The tanks (usually Panzer IV or stug) will get killed by AT nades + T34, or just circle strafing.
Opinions reflect all team modes (not 1v1)
I often edit my posts several times after posting
I often edit my posts several times after posting
30 May 2013, 12:08 PM
#7
Posts: 255
If im mistaken, disregard this post.
I am not having problems against Germans i win 80% of my games. i merely thought it would be nice to have some sort of anti tank infantry that is not guards, i feel it pigeon holes people in 1v1s, if hit the dirt was for example alongside a shock troops doctrine it would not be such a no brainer, currently that doc gives you capable anti infantry with conscripts( PG capable) anti tank inf. and late game an awesome artillery piece (tiger comming at you, either button and set your atry on it or ram it and arty it, does not always kill it but it sure as hell makes the german scared and makes him play it way more consertativly)
i think i have digressed, i would like more diversity with my doctrines / playstyle, currently if i suspect a flame half track comming i always pick guards doc, 9/10 times the HTD one, but maybe if i could get panzer shreks or something a little weaker on my penal squads or some inf (but no conscripts, jeez they are overloaded already) i could go with shock troops alot lot more.
I am not having problems against Germans i win 80% of my games. i merely thought it would be nice to have some sort of anti tank infantry that is not guards, i feel it pigeon holes people in 1v1s, if hit the dirt was for example alongside a shock troops doctrine it would not be such a no brainer, currently that doc gives you capable anti infantry with conscripts( PG capable) anti tank inf. and late game an awesome artillery piece (tiger comming at you, either button and set your atry on it or ram it and arty it, does not always kill it but it sure as hell makes the german scared and makes him play it way more consertativly)
i think i have digressed, i would like more diversity with my doctrines / playstyle, currently if i suspect a flame half track comming i always pick guards doc, 9/10 times the HTD one, but maybe if i could get panzer shreks or something a little weaker on my penal squads or some inf (but no conscripts, jeez they are overloaded already) i could go with shock troops alot lot more.
30 May 2013, 12:31 PM
#8
Posts: 52
My question is, what doctrines are actually any good for the Ostheer?
Sojourner aka Murfenator
http://www.twitch.tv/murfenator
http://www.twitch.tv/murfenator
30 May 2013, 12:34 PM
#9
Posts: 2779
My question is, what doctrines are actually any good for the Ostheer?
Jager Infantry = best and the only one good
G43 spam are godlike and = maphack
others are trash
dunno about the Tiger one
30 May 2013, 16:15 PM
#10
Posts: 371
Unless your playing the ppsh + guaards doctrine you should go for 3 cons and then asses the situation depending on what your opponent has built .
Other than that soviet doctrines have a certain way they are played early on so if you go for a doc with schock troops , you should get at nades then t1 and 1 schocktroops squad and proceed to tech for t2 fast and react from there remember at any time you can get an m3/cons/2nd schock to reinforce against inf spam otherwise get the at gun quickly .
If you go for guards doctrine (ppsh doctr excluded ) go for 3 cons then t1 then guards then m3 . Guards with m3 + at nades can counter everything from Ost t2 .
Other than that soviet doctrines have a certain way they are played early on so if you go for a doc with schock troops , you should get at nades then t1 and 1 schocktroops squad and proceed to tech for t2 fast and react from there remember at any time you can get an m3/cons/2nd schock to reinforce against inf spam otherwise get the at gun quickly .
If you go for guards doctrine (ppsh doctr excluded ) go for 3 cons then t1 then guards then m3 . Guards with m3 + at nades can counter everything from Ost t2 .
Please relic and sega just take it easy with the dlc ...
30 May 2013, 17:59 PM
#11
Posts: 255
Completely agree with you kafrion. but imo in 1v1s it is better to go for a guards doctrine because flamer half tracks will eat at guns alive which makes you have to go quite passive. (forgive me if everything revolves around the flame track but 90% of germans i face in 1v1s go flametrack)
In 2v2s and up i tend to go with shock troops alot more as isu152s are just amaazing late game.
In 2v2s and up i tend to go with shock troops alot more as isu152s are just amaazing late game.
30 May 2013, 18:27 PM
#12
Posts: 371
Completely agree with you kafrion. but imo in 1v1s it is better to go for a guards doctrine because flamer half tracks will eat at guns alive which makes you have to go quite passive. (forgive me if everything revolves around the flame track but 90% of germans i face in 1v1s go flametrack)
In 2v2s and up i tend to go with shock troops alot more as isu152s are just amaazing late game.
I see what y mean , there is flametrack phobia of shorts
( lets hope they ll nerf it a bit ) , a good way though not always completely reliable one to predict whether a fast flametrack is coming is if your opponent has upgraded any flamethrowers or lmgs . I agree that atg vs flametrack can become nasty but so far i ve dealt with it either by luring it to a mine esp in pripiyat or with oorah+at nade then finish with the atg (thats why its important to determine whether you have a fast flametrack or not ) . First you take away the mobility then the hp , but i have not yet played this version of the beta yet so maybe the crits from nades have changed a bit . Next time you go for a schock doctrine try the one with the IS2 its great since you never have to tech to t4 and you get very cool abilities and the atg+kv8+T34 combo which is incredibly powerful midgame (+ that you can counter pak walls with the ''napalm'' strike ), oh the hordes of pgrens i ve roasted
Please relic and sega just take it easy with the dlc ...
30 May 2013, 18:38 PM
#13
Posts: 960
Jager Infantry = best and the only one good
G43 spam are godlike and = maphack
others are trash
dunno about the Tiger one
The tiger one is pretty bad. The Tiger itself is great, but that's all it's got. Not going Jager is basically an instant loss.
Opinions reflect all team modes (not 1v1)
I often edit my posts several times after posting
I often edit my posts several times after posting
30 May 2013, 19:17 PM
#14
Posts: 255
@kafrion. yes i have done the is2 a little bit too, though the actual is2 is very underwhelming, 3 times now it has been killed off by a stug, for some reason the stug penetrates it's armour like it was hard peanut butter in some stale bread..
but i do like everything else about the doctrine, the kv8 is just... drool tastic, that thing just runs up to AT guns and chews them alive. it has tons of armour +HP and so can just back away and get repaired.
Also i too roast defensive lines with the napalm drop, but the precision strike is also very good. combine it with a t34 ram just as you drop the flares almost guarantees a hit / kill, i think it is because the actual "ram" animation immobilizes the enemy tank during the animation and you need to re click to make it move giving you a valuable secound for the strike to hit + the whole engine damage bit, not so great to waste loads of munis on a panzer 4 / stug but a tiger / elephant, nomnomnom
but i do like everything else about the doctrine, the kv8 is just... drool tastic, that thing just runs up to AT guns and chews them alive. it has tons of armour +HP and so can just back away and get repaired.
Also i too roast defensive lines with the napalm drop, but the precision strike is also very good. combine it with a t34 ram just as you drop the flares almost guarantees a hit / kill, i think it is because the actual "ram" animation immobilizes the enemy tank during the animation and you need to re click to make it move giving you a valuable secound for the strike to hit + the whole engine damage bit, not so great to waste loads of munis on a panzer 4 / stug but a tiger / elephant, nomnomnom
31 May 2013, 03:53 AM
#15
Posts: 144
I think you're too much stuck in the thinking of what u must use vs certain units.. try using combos of AT-nades, mines, guards, AT guns, even a mortar does a decent damage to the HT. The strat i do with soviets, has made me win almost every game since closed beta, wether it be PG spam or flamer HT.. AT nades + HMG is a nice combination of units that can counter t2.
ya i agree you! i will change my think, and play as your advice. thx!!
31 May 2013, 06:10 AM
#16
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
No point in balancing something around dealing with the OP Flame HT because surely its going to be nerfed soon anyways.
31 May 2013, 07:47 AM
#17
Posts: 51
i merely thought it would be nice to have some sort of anti tank infantry that is not guards
According to Wikipedia soviets mostly had AT nades, early the RPG-40 (stands for "ruchnaya protivotankovaya granata" not rocket-propelled-grenade) which could penetrate 20mm armor and later the RPG-43 which could penetrate up to 75mm. Other than that Wiki only lists AT rifles (PTRD, PTRS) and leased allied or captured german weapons. Therefore, Relic could introduce (doctrinal) soviet squads with leased bazookas or captured panzerschrecks
("Target confirmed, but where is the trigger on that thing comrade?").
1 Jun 2013, 10:04 AM
#18
Posts: 144
Recent patch made it even more clearly.
soviet too depend on the doctrine.
soviet too depend on the doctrine.
18 Jun 2013, 00:30 AM
#19
1 Posts: 532 | Subs: 1
The tiger one is pretty bad. The Tiger itself is great, but that's all it's got. Not going Jager is basically an instant loss.
Troll, much?
Opel Blitz gives "free" resources of MP Muni and Fuel. I was spamming 6 Tigers per game 1v1 in the Closed Beta.
Artillery Field Officer allows all your artillery to fire twice in the same CD. That's 20 rockets per Panzerwerfer!
Fragmentation bomb outright kills squads.
And last but definitely not the least, a freaking Stuka flying around for half a minute pinning every squad in its line of fire. BAD?
You must be trolling, if so, good job.
18 Jun 2013, 02:43 AM
#20
Posts: 331
1. No need to revive old threads
2. I believe he is referring to the doctrine which had a recon plane, a tiger, and a bunch of shit, as opposed to the opel blitz doctrine, which was not always in the game This is why(3.)you should not revive dead threads
2. I believe he is referring to the doctrine which had a recon plane, a tiger, and a bunch of shit, as opposed to the opel blitz doctrine, which was not always in the game This is why(3.)you should not revive dead threads
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