M10 Cost

The M10 has 0.06 accuracy up close, giving it the highest accuracy ingame, shared by other tank destroyers/hunters such as the Jackson, Panther, Jagdpanzer, and Jagdtiger, and higher than other TDs such as the Elefant and SU85. Accuracy at range is 0.03, higher than all regular tanks and only lower than the OKW Panther, Jackson, Jagdpanzer, equal to the OH Panther, and still higher than the Elefant and SU85. Using HVAP rounds gives it 0.04 accuracy, which is (again) the highest accuracy at range ingame, shared with the Jackson w/HVAP, Jagdpanzer, and Jagdtiger.

What's more, it has a 0.75 accuracy modifier on the move, unique to USF tanks, compared to all other faction's 0.5 modifier. Again, another advantage.

Conclusion- You're incorrect.

Check the Panthers moving accuracy. The OKW Panther has a better chance to hit a Jackson on the move at long range then the Jackson has to hit it due to it having a high base accuracy and .65 moving accuracy and the Jacksons unusually large target size.

I think the M10 is good in fact great for what it costs. I say increase by maybe 5 fuel not because it will make a huge difference (kind of like the larger size of Shermans then other Mediums) but because I think it should reflect its slightly better value now for balance purposes. Thats all. Not to delay it not to prevent it from spamming. But simply to balance its cost vs performance.

Losing 85 Fuel to chase down and finish off a Panther or Tiger is a fair trade. I mean you can use these as Suicide Heavy tank killers which I have. That and crush anyone whom dares to try and faust you.

I am not saying its OP. Its not OP. But Its also only 15 more fuel then a Stuart. And alot cheaper if you include the Stuarts tech cost.

M10 DPS 27-16 (54-32 for 170 fuel no teching)
M36 DPS 27-19 (205 fuel for the first with Teching)

So there is no longer a great variance there.

eh, It might need changing but if you are comparing it to the p4 it lacks the AI effectiveness of the p4.

Check the Panthers moving accuracy. The OKW Panther has a better chance to hit a Jackson on the move at long range then the Jackson has to hit it due to it having a high base accuracy and .65 moving accuracy and the Jacksons unusually large target size..

1. I wasn't speaking in context of the Jackson at all. This was in response to NEVEC claiming that the M10 has significantly poorer accuracy than the JP4.

2. What you've done is cherry-pick the third most accurate (so close to the JP4/JT that it makes no difference) OKW Axis unit, with the highest moving accuracy of all axis units, compare it to a unit I wasn't even talking about, and say it can hit that (the Jackson) more than the Jackson can do the opposite- in one, and one condition only- at maximum range while moving.

3. You neglect to mention that the Jackson can pop HVAP, which brings up accuracy to more than the OKW Panther anyway. So the previous point doesn't even matter.

4. Bravo.

1. I wasn't speaking in context of the Jackson at all. This was in response to NEVEC claiming that the M10 has significantly poorer accuracy than the JP4.

2. What you've done is cherry-pick the third most accurate (so close to the JP4/JT that it makes no difference) OKW Axis unit, with the highest moving accuracy of all axis units, compare it to a unit I wasn't even talking about, and say it can hit that (the Jackson) more than the Jackson can do the opposite- in one, and one condition only- at maximum range while moving.

3. You neglect to mention that the Jackson can pop HVAP, which brings up accuracy to more than the OKW Panther anyway. So the previous point doesn't even matter.

4. Bravo.

What's more, it has a 0.75 accuracy modifier on the move, unique to USF tanks, compared to all other faction's 0.5 modifier. Again, another advantage.


You were corrected because of that statement. Whats more your assuming a Jackson always has HVAP and while we are at it we can bring in the Blitz modifiers.

I wasnt aware whether or not you knew about the Jackson/Panther matchup. You need to turn your butthurt dial down. Personally I like being corrected on mistakes around stats because I dont have a huge ego to contend with and see it as growth.

What's more, it has a 0.75 accuracy modifier on the move, unique to USF tanks, compared to all other faction's 0.5 modifier. Again, another advantage.

You were corrected because of that statement. Whats more your assuming a Jackson always has HVAP and while we are at it we can bring in the Blitz modifiers.

I wasnt aware whether or not you knew about the Jackson/Panther matchup. You need to turn your butthurt dial down. Personally I like being corrected on mistakes around stats because I dont have a huge ego to contend with and see it as growth.

Ah, got it. Yes I did remember the OKW panther in that statement, no I didn't bother adding it in because then I'd have to list all the exceptions- KV8, Luchs, etc etc. What I did wrong was forget to take that into account when replying to your post, which is my mistake, and I apologize. What you did was quote a whole chunk of text instead of actually specifying what you're trying to target- that the Panther has 0.065 long range accuracy. Bring that up and it'll make things a lot clearer.

And of course, you have to bring in personal insults, because you can't have a COH2.ORG balance thread without them. So here's one for you.
Show Spoiler

Ah, got it. Yes I did remember the OKW panther in that statement, no I didn't bother adding it in because then I'd have to list all the exceptions- KV8, Luchs, etc etc. What I did wrong was forget to take that into account when replying to your post, which is my mistake, and I apologize. What you did was quote a whole chunk of text instead of actually specifying what you're trying to target- that the Panther has 0.065 long range accuracy. Bring that up and it'll make things a lot clearer.

And of course, you have to bring in personal insults, because you can't have a COH2.ORG balance thread without them. So here's one for you.
Show Spoiler

Understood. My mistake for assuming you were insulted. I took the cherry picking accusation as an insult. Thats making an assumption of bad intent. I quoted the wrong thread. And was simply illustrating a matchup that I found interesting. Since the USF do have higher Moving accuracy and was wondering why the Panther always seemed to come out on top of the long range back peddle shoot out that is Jackson vs Panther.

Understood. My mistake for assuming you were insulted. I took the cherry picking accusation as an insult. Thats making an assumption of bad intent. I quoted the wrong thread. And was simply illustrating a matchup that I found interesting. Since the USF do have higher Moving accuracy and was wondering why the Panther always seemed to come out on top of the long range back peddle shoot out that is Jackson vs Panther.

No offense was intended by the cherrypicking statement, and I apologize again if any was taken... and with regards to the matchup, as long as you can keep reeling the panther in while the jackson reverses and stops-shoots-moves, the jackson should be alright- though extended max range duels with perfect vision for both sides are very rare.

No offense was intended by the cherrypicking statement, and I apologize again if any was taken... and with regards to the matchup, as long as you can keep reeling the panther in while the jackson reverses and stops-shoots-moves, the jackson should be alright- though extended max range duels with perfect vision for both sides are very rare.

I find it to be in 50% of my matchs at least. I will always site for a Jackson and often times its around a capture point battle where both are supported (I mean its an attack move command the backpeddling tends to come later as I run for my Jackson life). And 90% of the time its ends badly for the Jackson. I ran the numbers because it defied my expectations. My assumption was the Panther had the same moving accuracy of all other Axis tanks and this was a huge advantage for the USF. Obviously its not a huge advantage over the Panther since it has 10% less moving accuracy and a really accurate gun to begin with.