The Tiger ace

By all means this is a cool commander with nice perks. The tiger ace itself is powerful, unique, at 15CP, and cripples the Ostheer economy. It is not a balanced call in however.

As a tank it is fine, but the problem lies in the fact it cost 0 fuel. It unfairly allows fuel spending on tanks and veterancy to keep the pressure on at at no real cost. Most players dislike the call in meta, and this is the worst offender: atleast in the call in meta there is the sacrifice of armor to lay on pressure and keep map control. With the balanced ace Ostheer can freely use tanks to maintain map control and pressure which call in commanders normally sacrifice. This commander simply gets the best of both worlds with no real disadvantage.

In addition to the game flow problems, the Tiger ace is an unjustifiable nail in the coffin for players who are trying to get back into the game. It is also not fair of a way to get back in the game and potentially win while they were being outplayed all game.

The worst offender is the even game. Players of equal skill with manpower drains and map control duking it out with close populations and then Bam, a tiger ace comes out. Both players have been spending fuel to keep in the game and try to win, There is no real way to Stay on the field anymore without heavy stalling and blunders by the Ostheer player. Some how Allies are just expected to have extra AT and fuel to stop the behemoth which in a 1v1 is simply not fair.

Now dont get me wrong, you do have to float manpower to get it, but that is pretty easy when you have tanks now fighting taking damage off of the infantry which is repairable (Free).

The tiger ace should cost fuel in short, I would be happy with it only costing 135, at least there would be one less P4 on the field to deal with.

It would be just as outrageous to imagine an IS2 Ace which cost 0 fuel (Though its abilities would be capture point and sight increase compared to target weak point and blitz )

Meh, the tiger ace is kind of bullshit, but at the same time, it's kind of not.


If the game is still going on at 15cp, the game is usually decided by then anyways. This commander falls short in the early, mid game and and that's why its not a meta commander like lightning war, CAS, or mechanized assault.

If the game still isin't decided, by 15 CP you should *definately* know that he has went elite troops, and you should prepare for it. Make AT, plant mines and you will be fine.


It cripples you so much, it's just important not to lose tanks to it and you will come out again.


In team games it cripples you so hard and with the sheer amount of spam going on in those modes its impact is very small for the price of putting the ostheer player completely out of the game.


In 1v1, if you are USF and the game is still going in 15CP, you pretty much lost no matter what unless you snowballed.

Vs soviets, they have ample tools to deal with it.

Meh, the tiger ace is kind of bullshit, but at the same time, it's kind of not.


If the game is still going on at 15cp, the game is usually decided by then anyways. This commander falls short in the early, mid game and and that's why its not a meta commander like lightning war, CAS, or mechanized assault.

If the game still isin't decided, by 15 CP you should *definately* know that he has went elite troops, and you should prepare for it. Make AT, plant mines and you will be fine.


It cripples you so much, it's just important not to lose tanks to it and you will come out again.


In team games it cripples you so hard and with the sheer amount of spam going on in those modes its impact is very small for the price of putting the ostheer player completely out of the game.

In a 1v1 how do you propose to "prepare" more. Of course its known they went elite troops but that doesnt all of the sudden grant me more munitions for mines, manpower for AT guns, and fuel for tanks while fending off P4 spam and vetted troops.

In a 3v3 or 4v4 its rather crippling and those spam fests give you enough to deal with it. In a 1v1 and for the most part 2v2 you dont.

Its always crippling to loose tanks, But you can outplay the Ostheer player and they can loose tanks and still call in the Balanced Ace to crash through your lines.

Its BS in a way that its BS the old blitz allowed players to have terrible micro, drive into traps and still escape with lolBlitz

Ironically the high MP cost made it much more expensive than adding a high fuel cost ever could. Ostheer is almost never hurting for fuel, what it does hurt a lot for is MP.

If you priced it as just a more expensive Tiger at a lower CP you would see it far, far more often.

In a 1v1 how do you propose to "prepare" more. Of course its known they went elite troops but that doesnt all of the sudden grant me more munitions for mines, manpower for AT guns, and fuel for tanks while fending off P4 spam and vetted troops.

In a 3v3 or 4v4 its rather crippling and those spam fests give you enough to deal with it. In a 1v1 and for the most part 2v2 you dont.

Its always crippling to loose tanks, But you can outplay the Ostheer player and they can loose tanks and still call in the Balanced Ace to crash through your lines.

Its BS in a way that its BS the old blitz allowed players to have terrible micro, drive into traps and still escape with lolBlitz

When you see elite troops, simply prepare for it by planting mines. 800mp is alot of MP, and you should be able to push him off the map if he is floating so much. In 1v1, vetted troops are almost always a bad idea due to it delaying your tech.


If he somehow does get the ace, and you do not have the tools to deal with it, simply ignore it and try to bleed his infantry.

Well, I kinda think it's not as OP as people say.

From 1s and 2s perspective:
-Most players use fuel on their infantry, most notably HMG42 and Mortar team which is a good tactic versus USA. A vet2 HMG42 is a beast, combine that with the recent buff and you'll get them insta-pinned. This however, delays T2 so you can easily rush for light armor. Delayed T2 mean delay PAK means AAHT/T34 FTW.
-Stun grenades are meh.
-If-as you say-they manage to field medium armor (considering they have already spent fuel on veterancy), they are gonna have a huge MP upkeep. So the MP income is barely enough to reinforce their remaining squads (which is quit expensive)

So, if you are facing an opponent who can hold his ground until 15CP, has a big army of vetted infantry and armor, still has enough MP to reinforce, and has a buttload of MP to call in the Ace, I think they deserve the win.

Ironically the high MP cost made it much more expensive than adding a high fuel cost ever could. Ostheer is almost never hurting for fuel, what it does hurt a lot for is MP.

If you priced it as just a more expensive Tiger at a lower CP you would see it far, far more often.

Except it doesnt, Soviets can play with a higher manpower drain and save for an ISU which is priced similarly in MP successfully, so can Ostheer.

The reason its easy to save for a balanced ace is that like Windustry, your tanks start soaking the damage that could go to your infantry which is free compared to loosing members of squads. This alleviation of pressure on your manpower drain means its not nearly has hard to save up while maintaining a field presence.

This is the exact same concept that allows USF to stay competitive in the later stages of the game by no longer getting expensive infantry and spamming tanks instead. Its well known that USF cannot support more than 5 rifles very well, They would die late game trying to keep even more population in infantry.

Well, I kinda think it's not as OP as people say.

From 1s and 2s perspective:
-Most players use fuel on their infantry, most notably HMG42 and Mortar team which a good tactic versus USA. A vet2 HMG42 is a beast, combine that with the recent buff and you'll get them insta-pinned. This however, delays T2 so you can easily rush for light armor.
-Stun grenades are meh.
-If-as you say-they manage to field medium armor (considering they have already spent fuel on veterancy), they are gonna have a huge MP upkeep. So the MP income is barely enough to reinforce their remaining squads (which is quit expensive)

So, if you are facing an opponent who can hold his ground until 15CP, has a big army of vetted infantry and armor, still has enough MP to reinforce, and has a buttload of MP to call in the Ace, I think they deserve the win.

Games go long enough for it plenty of times, and the manpower is not an issue in the slightest. Anyone who has gotten to purchase a second heavy tank has had plenty of manpower over the course of the long game to float for a Tiger ace. If a Game goes to 15 Cp why does that mean the Ostheer player should win/get a huge advantage? They could be just as hard pressed to stay in the game as the Allies player.

What you just said is that Ostheer players who go tiger ace should just be handed wins at 15 Cp

In a 1v1 how do you propose to "prepare" more. Of course its known they went elite troops but that doesnt all of the sudden grant me more munitions for mines, manpower for AT guns, and fuel for tanks while fending off P4 spam and vetted troops.

In a 3v3 or 4v4 its rather crippling and those spam fests give you enough to deal with it. In a 1v1 and for the most part 2v2 you dont.

Its always crippling to loose tanks, But you can outplay the Ostheer player and they can loose tanks and still call in the Balanced Ace to crash through your lines.

Its BS in a way that its BS the old blitz allowed players to have terrible micro, drive into traps and still escape with lolBlitz

Elite Troops is an interesting but fairly weak doctrine nowadays, even by OH standards.

All you need to do, both with US and Sovs, is play standard meta and you should not have much of a problem. OH T3 play is hardcountered by both Shock Rifle and Guard Motor call ins (IS-2/34/85)and equally pointless against Jacksons, especially in conjunction with AB. If you don't have sufficient strength to combat the Tiger Ace directly, when it eventually turns up, kill his infantry and support weapons with heavy counterharassment, he won't have the mp to replace them.
IlgetUsomeday: The times when the Tiger Ace was a gamebreaking, nigh unkillable unit are long over. Its a Vet3 Tiger that cripples the OH economy, at 15 (!) cp, thats all - it certainly does not have the potential to turn a game around any longer. For the same price/opportunity cost you get 2 sets of Soviet call ins and they have far, far more punch and utility.

Games go long enough for it plenty of times, and the manpower is not an issue in the slightest. Anyone who has gotten to purchase a second heavy tank has had plenty of manpower over the course of the long game to float for a Tiger ace. If a Game goes to 15 Cp why does that mean the Ostheer player should win/get a huge advantage? They could be just as hard pressed to stay in the game as the Allies player.

What you just said is that Ostheer players who go tiger ace should just be handed wins at 15 Cp

of course, you have overlooked other factors my friend. MP float, reinforcement, combined arms. I mean the game is already finished by that time, and TigerAce has minimum effect.

It would seem I am the only one thinking beyond dealing with the tank.

Yes, we can all deal with the tiger ace, they dont auto win and I have beaten plenty. My point is that it rewards players for no fair reason at all.

Just like old blitz rewarded bad players with an escape

just like old mines rewarded Soviets with squad wipes for very little

Just like how planes can crash and kill armies with no cost to your opponent (they shouldnt happen)

Just like OKW used to have powerful flack emplacements that shot down planes too often for nothing at all.

Just like Fuel dropping to your OKW friend to field a 12 minute KT.

Its rewarding for poor to no reasons at all.

It would seem I am the only one thinking beyond dealing with the tank.

Yes, we can all deal with the tiger ace, they dont auto win and I have beaten plenty. My point is that it rewards players for no fair reason at all.

Just like old blitz rewarded bad players with an escape

just like old mines rewarded Soviets with squad wipes for very little

Just like how planes can crash and kill armies with no cost to your opponent (they shouldnt happen)

Just like OKW used to have powerful flack emplacements that shot down planes too often for nothing at all.

Just like Fuel dropping to your OKW friend to field a 12 minute KT.

Its rewarding for poor to no reasons at all.

Whatever, STUG E and CAS is much , much stronger than the elite troops doctrine... Even lightning war is better..

Whatever, STUG E and CAS is much , much stronger than the elite troops doctrine...

They are because of other reasons that have prices at least, this is not a comparison of commander strength more of addressing an outlying issue.

Everyone hates how blobs are super effective and reward terrible play, and people want ways of dealing with them / dissuading them. Tiger ace got through because its not as glaring of an issue.

They both reward poor play

The Tiger Ace doesn't even have more armor than the regular Tiger. I can't really see how it's hard to get rid of when the regular Tiger isn't hard to get rid of.

Except it doesnt, Soviets can play with a higher manpower drain and save for an ISU which is priced similarly in MP successfully, so can Ostheer.

But an ISU doesn't turn your income off, and Soviet teching is much much less MP intensive than Ostheer teching is. Do you honestly suggest that it's viable for Ostheer to refuse to tech and wait for a 15 CP call in?

because it comes with blitz, TWP, and 50 range.

The Tiger Ace doesn't even have more armor than the regular Tiger. I can't really see how it's hard to get rid of when the regular Tiger isn't hard to get rid of.



But an ISU doesn't turn your income off, and Soviet teching is much much less MP intensive than Ostheer teching is. Do you honestly suggest that it's viable for Ostheer to refuse to tech and wait for a 15 CP call in?

Like I said above, the issue is not getting rid of the tiger, its handeling the tiger ace while there is other armor on the field in addition such as 2 P4s because it costs 0 fuel

The Tiger Ace doesn't even have more armor than the regular Tiger. I can't really see how it's hard to get rid of when the regular Tiger isn't hard to get rid of.

Normal Tiger: 1040 HP
Tiger Ace: 1280 HP

Also, as far as i know, it's a "vet 3 tiger" with increased vision and same DPS on MG as a Tiger with gunner on top.
Besides all that, the main problem is the "triple tap" or the IWinButton. Target weakpoint doesn't share cooldown with the main gun, this leads to 3 consecutive shots in a small intervale of time.

How you obtain the tank, is just badly design also. The income penalty doesn't start to hit till 10mins (for the cost of not spending fuel), so this tanks should be used to trade agressively or finish the game.

Note: this is not about the overall strenght of the commander rather than the badly designed TA.

Like I said above, the issue is not getting rid of the tiger, its handeling the tiger ace while there is other armor on the field in addition such as 2 P4s because it costs 0 fuel

If he's teching and pumping out units 900 MP isn't exactly cheap. To say you can't handle it while other armor is on the field is kind of weird because this could apply to almost every unit in the game.

It's a potent tank for sure, but long gone are the days of it being the king of the battlefield. With the Jackson buff the ability for allies to handle late game Axis call in's has never been greater.

Normal Tiger: 1040 HP
Tiger Ace: 1280 HP

Also, as far as i know, it's a "vet 3 tiger" with increased vision and same DPS on MG as a Tiger with gunner on top.
Besides all that, the main problem is the "triple tap" or the IWinButton. Target weakpoint doesn't share cooldown with the main gun, this leads to 3 consecutive shots in a small intervale of time.

How you obtain the tank, is just badly design also. The income penalty doesn't start to hit till 10mins (for the cost of not spending fuel), so this tanks should be used to trade agressively or finish the game.

Note: this is not about the overall strenght of the commander rather than the badly designed TA.

TWP should be fixed, but with that fixed I don't see how this is extremely OP when adding a fuel cost and lowering the CP for it would just make it more used instead of less.

Games go long enough for it plenty of times, and the manpower is not an issue in the slightest. Anyone who has gotten to purchase a second heavy tank has had plenty of manpower over the course of the long game to float for a Tiger ace. If a Game goes to 15 Cp why does that mean the Ostheer player should win/get a huge advantage? They could be just as hard pressed to stay in the game as the Allies player.

What you just said is that Ostheer players who go tiger ace should just be handed wins at 15 Cp

This isnt right. USF wins early but falls of late. You either decide the game before he gets his Ace. If you think the Ace should be adjusted, so should USF early.

in 1v1 its op if u dont prepare

besides that, its alright