Is the King Tiger still worth 260 fuel?

my mistake, didn't bother to look it up before hand. points to the sturmtiger.

that's because the jagdtiger is a TD and performs shit against infantry. the jagdtiger is also a call in and thus has no associated tech costs. tech costs are not factored into how powerful a unit is though, which is the entire issue with callins.

the VI B doesn't need the highest health or the highest armour; it has high health and armour and a very powerful gun.

then don't spend your fuel on a VI B. yes, it looks bad when you compare it to callin tanks due to the tech cost discrepancy, but it's not a bad tank and callins/tech costs are a different issue that the VI B should not be buffed because of.

Call in's are never going to get addressed, we pretty much have Relic's word on that so I would like to see the KT put back to it's previous armor with Blitz removed. Just give allies better more varied AT like a not shit AT gun for USF or a Heavy tank.

But the AT gun is tier 2 and it is ment to deal with medium tanks and light vehicles. King Tiger is a HEAVY TANK that was meant to do this! When you have low tier AT gun you can't expect it to counter a lategame Heavy Tank that is basicaly the pinacle of what this faction has to offer. Not to mention KT survived with 25% of his health in the clip too and if B4 which that guy had would hit it once it would surely die in that assalut. You see the clip as one dimensional battle but the truth is Allies don't have direct counter but still have enough indirect ones to deal with KT. That being B4, mines, IS-2, Tag vehicle, Jacksons(due recent buffs), fast medium tanks, at nades.

First of all, WALL OF TEXT. Please separate your one paragraph.

Second, You guys really need to stop crying about your Uber tank because you have to micro more now.

Lastly, COH2 is rock paper and scissors it does not matter what tier the unit is, counter is a counter. MGs counter (well suppose to) T4 Obers or Paratroopers. How can all those AT guns + Mines not take him out? The evidence of stupidity with KT is right there in front of you guys but still Axis only players cry?

You said "Heavy Tank" should not countered by "low Tier" units and mention T3 medium tanks and {AT Nades}?

Watch this match. Pre nerf King Tiger I know it's 4v4 but when you look at it KT doesn't seem so IMBA how Allied players state here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSts9z1behU

I saw the video with the Zis 76mms and Mine truth is that when you see it as someone with low knowledge of the game it looks ridicilous. But the AT gun is tier 2 and it is ment to deal with medium tanks and light vehicles. King Tiger is a HEAVY TANK that was meant to do this! When you have low tier AT gun you can't expect it to counter a lategame Heavy Tank that is basicaly the pinacle of what this faction has to offer. Not to mention KT survived with 25% of his health in the clip too and if B4 which that guy had would hit it once it would surely die in that assalut. You see the clip as one dimensional battle but the truth is Allies don't have direct counter but still have enough indirect ones to deal with KT. That being B4, mines, IS-2, Tag vehicle, Jacksons(due recent buffs), fast medium tanks, at nades. When you used your abilities right you could destroy KT even before this Armor nerf. Or when you were good enough you saw the fact enemy is going for it and you never let them get to that stage. I was never fan of handholding and I never will it seems like cheap way how to give unskiled players (missing of timings, bad earlygame to midgame play while your faction is great at these stages, lack of knowledge how to face heavy tanks with your units) unfair way to beat ones that went for high risk high reward tactic and managed to pull it off.

So I see you calling me out on having low understanding while earlier suggesting you can have 4-5 jacksons and a (or more) shermans before a panther

We are playing a game. AT guns are a hard counter to tanks. Pak40s do great against less armored Allies armor, why should an AT gun not do well against a tank....

T2 does not mean the units in them are less effective than T4, we are not playing Starcraft II. Units serve different purposes, ofc a tank can crash through T2 units if they are just mortars and mgs, but combined with anti tank guns should be able to hold off armor as well.

Also most of what you named are commander call ins, there are plenty of "hard counters" that incredibly struggled with the KT that are standard units (such as all of allies non doc AT before the patch)

ALso what is this your and my faction shit?

Watch this match. Pre nerf King Tiger I know it's 4v4 but when you look at it KT doesn't seem so IMBA how Allied players state here. Hell it can barely poke around the corner just because the amout of AT allies have by that point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSts9z1behU

OKW sruggles against shock rifle

but ost doesn't. Double paks + stun or engine damage is a ded IS2. it cant get away...

the nurf was a good change.. i remeber having 2 jackson fail to pen a KT, causing me to lose the game

a price decrease to 230 fuel would be fitting for the nurfed KT

First of all, WALL OF TEXT. Please separate your one paragraph.

Second, You guys really need to stop crying about your Uber tank because you have to micro more now.

Lastly, COH2 is rock paper and scissors it does not matter what tier the unit is, counter is a counter. MGs counter (well suppose to) T4 Obers or Paratroopers. How can all those AT guns + Mines not take him out? The evidence of stupidity with KT is right there in front of you guys but still Axis only players cry?

You said "Heavy Tank" should not countered by "low Tier" units and mention T3 medium tanks and {AT Nades}?

It's not a game of micro at all, the tank is so slow that it's super easy to micro, but you can't do much with it even if your microing it like a boss. It's best used for defense, were micro isn't even a factor.

So I see you calling me out on having low understanding while earlier suggesting you can have 4-5 jacksons and a (or more) shermans before a panther

We are playing a game. AT guns are a hard counter to tanks. Pak40s do great against less armored Allies armor, why should an AT gun not do well against a tank....

T2 does not mean the units in them are less effective than T4, we are not playing Starcraft II. Units serve different purposes, ofc a tank can crash through T2 units if they are just mortars and mgs, but combined with anti tank guns should be able to hold off armor as well.

Also most of what you named are commander call ins, there are plenty of "hard counters" that incredibly struggled with the KT that are standard units (such as all of allies non doc AT before the patch)

ALso what is this your and my faction shit?

I am from Czech Republic and English is not really my best langue. I try to talk from persective of a OKW player and use the knowledge of the game and logic I used when I played as Allies to deal with KT. It is hard for me to express myself in English so what I wrote is really what I think if you know what I mean. What I wrote might not be 100% what I really mean because the lack of English skills.

But the AT gun is tier 2 and it is ment to deal with medium tanks and light vehicles. King Tiger is a HEAVY TANK that was meant to do this!

I strongly disagree with this.

U are basically admitting that u want the KT to be an "i win button"

I strongly disagree with this.

U are basically admitting that u want the KT to be an "i win button"

No not at all I am just Allies just need more powerfull AT guns that's all. Like 17pdr that worked great in CoH1. I just thik King tiger is expensive and difficult to deploy due teching costs paired with lower fuel income for OKW. It should be good for shortcomings you need to overcome to deploy it.
It is hard to explain...

the problem is that relic isn't going to add something like that to the core faction (where it would need to be) and so we have to balance around the shitty design that they gave us.

No not at all I am just Allies just need more powerfull AT guns that's all. Like 17pdr that worked great in CoH1. I just thik King tiger is expensive and difficult to deploy due teching costs paired with lower fuel income for OKW. It should be good for shortcomings you need to overcome to deploy it.
It is hard to explain...

i think the nurf was in the right direction

i also think that the KT should get a cheaper fuel cost to 230 fuel

But there is no reason why the zis should have trouble penetrating it..

i think the nurf was in the right direction

i also think that the KT should get a cheaper fuel cost to 230 fuel

But there is no reason why the zis should have trouble penetrating it..

And please don't take my words out of contet when quoting. The whole thing is important.

This thing needs a turret rotation speed increase. My goodness it is slow.

And please don't take my words out of contet when quoting. The whole thing is important.

Re-Read 5 times

I didnt take anything you said "out of context"

Re-Read 5 times

I didnt take anything you said "out of context"

K no problem! I am tired a long day

Nah, it's still good. Now you need to think where you need to strike and just rushing with your frontal armor on at guns.

This thing needs a turret rotation speed increase. My goodness it is slow.

It needs something ! prepatch it was so expensive, so late, therefore so rare, and counterable in the "plethora" of ways.. and above all hardly anyone complained about it. And then they triple nerf it in some bizzare attempt to nerf the whole faction overall !?? Nevermind the price and everything u sacrifice the mid game to get it, let's look at it's cons: slow in all departments - one T34/85 in 1vs1 wins against it. Simple truth. it's pathetic range (for such a premium tank and that particular gun) makes it a easy target for all the SU's, ISU's, Jacksons etc. That tank is built exclusively around the idea of it's potent punch and survivability. You actually can't micro it, u can only put in the reverse and hope you make it out alive, and with Jackson spam lately, it rarely happens. If that tank was practically impenetrable from the front, it would still be balanced. Problem was I guess in the perception of the players, and the nature of the individual game.. KT would either be a rub it in/nail to the allied coffin - layin' waste to the desperate (already defeated) allied army with zook spam leaving only scratches on it's front, or the Joke/punching bag for the Allies to troll and dance around during the futile Axis last stands. It's still fun but also the frustration to use fetish unit - for those who really love it, but goin' for it actually works very well against you in general. Historical accuracy ? - I don't even want to start.

It needs something ! prepatch it was so expensive, so late, therefore so rare, and counterable in the "plethora" of ways.. and above all hardly anyone complained about it. And then they triple nerf it in some bizzare attempt to nerf the whole faction overall !?? Nevermind the price and everything u sacrifice the mid game to get it, let's look at it's cons: slow in all departments - one T34/85 in 1vs1 wins against it. Simple truth. it's pathetic range (for such a premium tank and that particular gun) makes it a easy target for all the SU's, ISU's, Jacksons etc. That tank is built exclusively around the idea of it's potent punch and survivability. You actually can't micro it, u can only put in the reverse and hope you make it out alive, and with Jackson spam lately, it rarely happens. If that tank was practically impenetrable from the front, it would still be balanced. Problem was I guess in the perception of the players, and the nature of the individual game.. KT would either be a rub it in/nail to the allied coffin - layin' waste to the desperate (already defeated) allied army with zook spam leaving only scratches on it's front, or the Joke/punching bag for the Allies to troll and dance around during the futile Axis last stands. It's still fun but also the frustration to use fetish unit - for those who really love it, but goin' for it actually works very well against you in general. Historical accuracy ? - I don't even want to start.

I don't know Allied fanboys strike me as gigantic hypocrites in this game. NO matter what you say no matter how many example you make or how good your arguments are. It just ends in "You just want KT to be I WIN button hurr durr" or "It was clearly OP becuase it has no direct counter" just grrr. Relic had clear idea with KT it was expensive lategame breaktrough tank which is suposed to be used to break enemy defences. It had extremely good armor and gun but also low range and lacked speed and maneuverability of Allied tank where even IS-2 was a lot faster than it. Tooltip states that only weakness is amased AT weapons which do counter it and in many cases KT can't even reach them without taking good deal of damage and even if KT must take them out it can be attacked by other tanks or infantry. Now there is no excuse for Obersoldaten blobs guarding it eiter OKW has shrecks or MG-34s on obers.

Hey, I tried to make some games with the KT, but it´s hard to get.

In fact it has always been hard to get. Costing officially 260 fuel - but practically 390 fuel (2/3 income) + all three tech buildings up, it doesn´t seem worth to get. But it now has the same frontal-armor value as an IS-2. Not even the stronger gun can justify this.

At the end of the day, with all the tech involved, the lowered fuel income and the high price, it costs as much as two IS-2s. And it does get the same armor. I think it´s dull to do this as historically (omg did he say history) it had more armor.

If it has to be tuned down, because Allied players are too lazy to flank - I think at least a price decrease would be adequate. You barely see it.

tl;dr - Problem: Same armor as IS-2, yet almost twice as expensive fuel-wise for the first unit.

KT is definitelly not worth so much. You can thank allied crybabies which cant handle it before patch. IS-2 is now best tanks you can get in game. Another Relic failure.