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I have a crazy story and I need your help

28 Mar 2015, 16:52 PM
#1
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
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Hi coh2.org,

I've never told the story of my two grandfathers to this community. It's a wild tale and the way in which I discovered it is a story in itself. My mom is currently doing research and hopes to one day write a book about the crazy way in which she came into this world. She was born on April 11th, 1943, in Ludwigsburg, Germany.

I'm opening a topic here because I would like to share this story, and more importantly, I would like your help! Many members here are history buffs and historians and you guys could have great insight into many of the missing pieces, or perhaps you might have suggestions as to how I could go about learning more details. As most of you know, I've been living in Berlin for the last 10 years. My German is adequate and I could easily make a field trip to a location in Germany to do research or try to get access to some archives.

I hadn't planned to do this, but since we have this forum now, it just fits. I'll try to summarize the story as briefly as possible, and then we can talk about it and maybe flush out more of the details.

=========

My mother, Edelgard (b. Edelgard Helga Hofmann), was born on April 11th, 1943, in the midst of World War 2 in full swing. My grandmother, Martha Brückner (b.1922), was a 20-year old "candy stripe nurse," who had met my grandfather-by-blood (I call him this because I never knew him growing up) Kurt Hofmann (b.1913), a Wehrmacht soldier, when he was injured on the front with a broken arm in 1940. He had come to the hospital in Ludwigsburg to recover. Before Kurt was called back to the front (he spent 21 months in Russia starting in October of 1940), they had fallen in love.

In July of 1942, Kurt spent a few weeks vacation in Ludwigsburg. My mother was conceived during this vist and Kurt became engaged to Martha on July 14th, 1942. Kurt returned to the war in Russia. Kurt and Martha were married "by proxy" on October 24th. I have a photo of my grandmother holding roses by herself. "By proxy" means that they were not actually in the same place. Kurt was at war and Martha was home in Ludwigsburg when they were married. My mother was born 6 months later.


Kurt, Martha and Edelgard 1944

In January of 1944, Kurt spent another short vacation in Ludwigsburg. He met his infant daughter for the first and only time. The new family made a visit to Schloss Ludwigsburg, the great yellow castle, and took many pictures. Kurt compiled the pictures into a bound book, adding poetry and watercolor paintings, even hand coloring some of the photos himself. The book expresses the love of a young couple; a handsome soldier and his beautiful bride, touring the castle grounds in peace. To look at the book now is quite odd, knowing that the world was burning in an insatiable fire all around them.

Kurt returned to the Russian front. We believe he was captured there some time in 1944 or early 1945. He was declared "Missing."

After the end of the war in May of 1945, my "grandpa" (as I knew him my whole life), Albert Kirchhoff, an American artillery soldier from Kentucky, was stationed in Ludwigsburg as part of the security force. My grandmother Martha was living there with her young daughter (my mom) in a war-torn Germany. She would go to the post office weekly to check if the status of her husband had changed, but even after a few years, Kurt was still simply listed as "Missing." She thought he had been killed. Eventually she began to date Albert, and with the encouragement from her parents who believed that there was no future for her and her daughter in Germany, she married Albert in 1948. Albert adopted Edelgard and they returned to the States two days after the marriage. Albert and Martha had a son, my uncle Ben, and raised their two children in Washington state.

We're not sure exactly when my grandmother or her family learned that Kurt had survived the war. He had spent 6 years in a Russian concentration camp. Upon learning of this story, I could only attempt to imagine what it must have felt like to return from Russia after what must have been a horrifying many years, only to find that your wife and daughter had left for America, essentially with "the enemy." If it even happened that way, we're not really sure.

In 1958, Kurt visited the Brückners (my great grandparents) and got Martha's address in Washington. There was some drama about an investigator or lawyer appearing at Martha and Albert's door in 1960. We're not exactly sure what that was all about (did it have to do with claiming a dependent on taxes? was it something about the legality of the marriage and the adoption?), but that's when my mom, now 17 years old, learned that her father-by-blood had been a German soldier, and that she had been adopted.

Similarly, I only learned that my grandfather-by-blood has been a German soldier when I was around the same age. I grew up knowing only Albert as my "grandpa." He had taught me how to make stained-glass and craft wooden trains by hand. When I was 20, I lived in Italy for a year. A friend, who spoke German, visited me, and I told him the story of my grandfather-by-blood who my mother and I had never met. We decided to go on a mission to find him. My family wasn't very helpful, as nobody wanted to stir drama between Albert and Martha. We only had a name and a location. We traveled by train from Italy to a small town in northern Germany called Oldenburg. We went to the local post office and cold-called all of the K. Hofmann listings in the phonebook. None of them knew of a long-lost daughter named Edelgard. I sat dejected, not knowing what to do. We had just traveled across many countries on our quest and had struck out completely. After a few minutes of sitting with a blank stare, I remembered that there were two spellings; "Hoffman" (the most common one) and "Hofmann" (the highly uncommon one). I rushed back to the phone book and thumbed to the listings for "K. Hofmann".

In his broken German, my friend asked on the phone, "Are you the father of Edelgard, who was born in 1943?"

The voice on the other line became defensive, "Who are you? Are you with a lawyer?"

"No no," my friend replied, "I am a friend of Jason, who is here with me. He is Edelgard's son. We only want to meet you."

After some reassurances, Kurts fears were alleviated (veterans were still being tried for war crimes), and he invited us to his house. My friend and I spent 3 days there, looking at old photo albums and listening to stories. Kurt gave me the bound book that he had made for my grandmother in 1944. He was now married to his third wife. We learned that he was an officer in the Wehrmacht, and many of the details that I have already recounted in this story. Kurt had a box of war memorabilia up in the attic, and we kept asking to see it. Eventually all of these stories about his first wife (my grandmother Martha) became too much for his current wife. She had a bit of a breakdown and insisted that we go. We never got to see what was in the box. I tried to send letters to Kurt after this meeting, but I never heard from him or saw him again. He died in Oldenburg a few years later.

=========


I wrote most of that from memory. I could do some digging and probably find some more details (names and dates and such). I would still like to see what was in that box. I'm wondering if it got passed down, and to whom. I don't think Kurt had any other descendants other than my mom and myself, but I think he had step-children from his two other wives. How could I go about finding this stuff? How could I learn more about his experience in the war? Like where he was stationed exactly and when. I would like to find his promotion history in the Wehrmacht and learn basically any new detail about him and his duties during the war. Where would I begin?

28 Mar 2015, 16:59 PM
#2
avatar of MajorBloodnok
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I have a feeling you may already have covered this ground, but if not, this might assist

http://genealogy.stackexchange.com/questions/3915/how-to-find-information-on-german-soldiers-from-world-war-i-and-world-war-ii

EDIT: to further help

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Dienststelle_%28WASt%29

I should imagine your Grandmother obtained the equivalent of a Declaration of Death ( In UK, you have to wait for 7 years before you can apply)

WWII throws up the most unimaginable stories - and this is yet another. I don't want to ask if your German Grandmother was happy ever after, or indeed what effect the outcome had on your natural German Grandfather. IMO,you are totally in order to ask these questions, but whether you will ever find a satisfactory outcome...
28 Mar 2015, 17:04 PM
#3
avatar of FichtenMoped
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Wow what an impressive story :clap:

I suggest you ask the Bundesarchiv, if they can give you any registers they have. The problem is: Many of these lists and registers were burned or captured.
28 Mar 2015, 17:04 PM
#4
avatar of TheMachine
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28 Mar 2015, 17:22 PM
#5
avatar of Mortar
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Posts: 559

Great story wonderfully told. I wish you all the luck in finding what you are looking for Jason!
28 Mar 2015, 18:09 PM
#6
avatar of Mithiriath
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At the same time great and upset story. War creates unbelievable situations.

Someone in my family is German (his father was in the Wehrmacht) and I have a nice German neighbor. I can ask them some information if you want.
28 Mar 2015, 19:07 PM
#7
avatar of DasDoomTurtle

Posts: 438

After reading your story an your plea for help I would like to help. My greatgrandfather was apart of SSNord amd avoided going to Russia after the war (they deported lany german men that fought agaisnt russia back toward russia) by lieng his way into an american POW camp. Anyway He had many friends whom he spent countless recources trying to find. My grandfather spent years helping him. I can ask him to see if we can come up some pissble leads and to any records for you. Just curoius if you know atleast his unit? Though toward the end of the war units didnt exist as much as "fire" brogades did.
-DasDoomTurtle
28 Mar 2015, 19:12 PM
#8
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
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That would be great, Doom. No, I don't know his unit. And MB, I haven't tried that link yet, but I will. All I really know is his name, and that at some point, he became an Officer.

Can anybody recognize the two medals on his uniform in that pic on the bottom right? One looks clearly like an Iron Cross (not sure which class), but what is the other one?
28 Mar 2015, 19:29 PM
#9
avatar of Basilone

Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2

Wow you resemble your grandfather more than I resemble my parents
28 Mar 2015, 19:49 PM
#10
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
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Ok I just talked to my mom. She did the record search via the Deutsche Dienststelle (as linked in that thread linked by MB) about 10 years ago. She has a list of Kurt's units and his death certificate. She's gonna get back to me when she has a chance to look up or copy that info.

I'm considering doing it again for myself (https://www.dd-wast.de/en/tracing-request.html) because new information is always popping up and becoming more accessible.
28 Mar 2015, 19:49 PM
#11
avatar of MajorBloodnok
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..............

Can anybody recognize the two medals on his uniform in that pic on the bottom right? One looks clearly like an Iron Cross (not sure which class), but what is the other one?


This?

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/war_badges/heer/infantry_assault.htm
28 Mar 2015, 19:53 PM
#12
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
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I am 100% convinced that you are correct, MB. It's an Infantry Assault Badge.


SILVER AWARD:

To have taken part in three or more infantry assaults.
To have taken part in three or more infantry counter-attacks.
To have taken part in three or more armed reconnaissance operations.
To have engaged in hand to hand combat in an assault position.
To have participated on three separate days in the restitution of combat positions.
28 Mar 2015, 20:02 PM
#13
avatar of Basilone

Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2

My great great uncle was mentioned several times in Cornelius Ryan's The Longest Day that the movie with same name was based on. He was a Ranger NCO that landed at Pointe du Hoc and I hear he became close friends with Walter Cronkite after the war. Anyone else know where your relatives served in WW2? Its pretty cool playing CoH on a map based on where one of your relatives fought.
28 Mar 2015, 21:42 PM
#14
avatar of Mortar
Donator 22

Posts: 559

My great great uncle was mentioned several times in Cornelius Ryan's The Longest Day that the movie with same name was based on. He was a Ranger NCO that landed at Pointe du Hoc and I hear he became close friends with Walter Cronkite after the war. Anyone else know where your relatives served in WW2? Its pretty cool playing CoH on a map based on where one of your relatives fought.


Great story Basilone. It's funny you would mention that about relatives and maps....

My father (yes, I'm 50 years old and he would be 90 if he was alive today) was a Glider Trooper Mortarman (thus my nickname) in the 194th Glider Infantry Regiment of the 17th Airborne. I know he entered the ETO sometime in the fall of 1944, and his unit's first action was shortly after Patton's 3rd army had relieved Bastogne. I know for a fact he fought in the Battle of the Bulge and I'm fairly certain was involved in the Battle of Dead Man's Ridge which took place Jan 4-9th, 1945 near Flamierge, Belgium (about 10 miles west of Bastogne).

http://www.thedropzone.org/europe/bulge/Mclain.html

I also know for a fact he was involved in Operation Varsity which was the Airborne component of Operation Plunder....Montgomery's offensive across the Rhine in late March, 1945. His unit, the 194th GIR was tasked with taking the town of Diersfordt and clearing the nearby Diersfordter Wald (forest). And he went in on a glider landing behind enemy lines near German artillery which engaged them with direct fire. The 70th anniversary of this Operation is just this week!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Varsity

In honor of him, I created a Coh2 map called Diersfordt. It's a 2v2 map on the Workshop if you're interested. :)

Sorry for taking your thread off topic Ami!!!

28 Mar 2015, 22:27 PM
#15
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
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No apologies necessary. Great post! Stories like that are well on-topic. :D :thumb: Very interesting stuff. Will you do anything for the 70th anniversary?
28 Mar 2015, 22:53 PM
#16
avatar of BartonPL

Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6

damn Jason, cool story bro :snfAmi:
28 Mar 2015, 22:58 PM
#17
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

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anyway, I hope you and your mother find what you are looking for Ami.
28 Mar 2015, 23:06 PM
#18
avatar of Mortar
Donator 22

Posts: 559

No apologies necessary. Great post! Stories like that are well on-topic. :D :thumb: Very interesting stuff. Will you do anything for the 70th anniversary?


I would love to but unfortunately finances, work, and timing keeps me from being able to do so. There actually is a facebook page for Scions (decendants) of 17th veterans. A group of travelers from that group is in Europe as I type this attending ceremonies with some still living vets. I have been getting Facebook updates the last 10 days or so with pictures from them. Someday I plan on making the trip to Europe and seeing all this. Maybe the 75th anniversary. :)
28 Mar 2015, 23:28 PM
#19
avatar of KENNY99

Posts: 20

Nice read ma´ and in fact a cool story since I thought it is no fakerino but a true story. I will check on whether I might be able to help you out or not.
29 Mar 2015, 03:54 AM
#20
avatar of Basilone

Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2015, 21:42 PMMortar
Great story Basilone. It's funny you would mention that about relatives and maps....

My father (yes, I'm 50 years old and he would be 90 if he was alive today) was a Glider Trooper Mortarman (thus my nickname) in the 194th Glider Infantry Regiment of the 17th Airborne. I know he entered the ETO sometime in the fall of 1944, and his unit's first action was shortly after Patton's 3rd army had relieved Bastogne. I know for a fact he fought in the Battle of the Bulge and I'm fairly certain was involved in the Battle of Dead Man's Ridge which took place Jan 4-9th, 1945 near Flamierge, Belgium (about 10 miles west of Bastogne).

http://www.thedropzone.org/europe/bulge/Mclain.html

I also know for a fact he was involved in Operation Varsity which was the Airborne component of Operation Plunder....Montgomery's offensive across the Rhine in late March, 1945. His unit, the 194th GIR was tasked with taking the town of Diersfordt and clearing the nearby Diersfordter Wald (forest). And he went in on a glider landing behind enemy lines near German artillery which engaged them with direct fire. The 70th anniversary of this Operation is just this week!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Varsity

In honor of him, I created a Coh2 map called Diersfordt. It's a 2v2 map on the Workshop if you're interested. :)

Sorry for taking your thread off topic Ami!!!

Thats pretty cool Mortar. My grandfather served as Huey medivac rescue in Vietnam and my dad has a bronze star from Desert Storm but I've only overheard him saying something about it to my mom a long time ago he's never talked about it to me. I wish military records were more easily accessible.
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