Real Talk: Panther

Panther is okay, but blitz makes it way too powerful

pls blanace 4 v 4 relic. Only fun game mode. Germans OP 4v4 we all know this.

Yeah please balance 4v4. Make Panther cost 500 fuel and 900 mp. Is too dam' effective for its cost right now and it can penetrate my IS2 from time to time . And why the fuck did you make Ostheer teching so cheap? It's to godam' cheap and an ostheer player can build even 2 Panthers in 45 minutes of a game! That's not fair !

Is too dam' effective for its cost right now

Pretty much.

The Panther was widely considered UP after it's double nerf last year (cost increase 145 -> 175, less armour & health).
The job of a panther is to destroy tanks and it does so at a premium cost.
OP is delusional to claim it's "too cheap" for what it does without providing any calculations. I hate when people use words like "price efficiency" , without providing any formulas or calculations, basically trying to lift their subjective feelings into a scientific sphere.

Also, funny to see how OP fails to mention that panther has less DPS than an SU 85 & Jackson (about 60-70 % of those, watch here for comparison 1 2 3) Hence it's balanced around being able to take more, but also only able to deal less.

I like a balanced game, but I absolutely hate if units get nerfed so hard that they don't get used anymore. It was this case with the panther and I guess OP is just a new player and therefore doesn't know the old days.
Another indicator that shows the panther is fine: It's not a no brainer and the must choice for every game, like it was back then with 100 range ISU. Basically every game ISU vs Elefant.

Also OP I suggest you stop hiding your playercard since you post a lot of these kinds of this threads without providing any authority.

The Panther was widely considered UP after it's double nerf last year (cost increase 145 -> 175, less armour & health).
The job of a panther is to destroy tanks and it does so at a premium cost.
OP is delusional to claim it's "too cheap" for what it does without providing any calculations. I hate when people use words like "price efficiency" , without providing any formulas or calculations, basically trying to lift their subjective feelings into a scientific sphere.

Also, funny to see how OP fails to mention that panther has less DPS than an SU 85 & Jackson

I like a balanced game, but I absolutely hate if units get nerfed so hard that they don't get used anymore. It was this case with the panther and I guess OP is just a new player and therefore doesn't know the old days.
Another indicator that shows the panther is fine: It's not a no brainer and the must choice for every game, like it was back then with 100 range ISU. Basically every game ISU vs Elefant.

If I am delusional, then you are blind. I gave you my numbers. Panther creams everything that could be considered an equal. Also Panther's effective DPS is the highest among all of its peers because it's a sure penetration on almost every Allied vehicle. If you can not grasp that you are the delusional one.

Great, I love how balance discutions are going on around here especially the ones directed towards Ostheer. So what Ostheer have right now? An untouchable T4 with questionable units besides the Panther which STILL, is to expensive. Meanwhile we accuse the "Tiger call in meta".

Solution: make tiger weakest heavy tank (done), but wait, there is still a way for ostheer to resist - we have the Panther and it's too efective! Nurf Panther and let Ostheer without solutions, fucking nazi bastards they deserved it!

Result => Startgame - Ostheer sucks. Middle game - Ostheer sucks. Late game - Ostheer what? Sucks, of course, what else?

If I am delusional, then you are blind. I gave you my numbers. Panther creams everything that could be considered an equal. Also Panther's effective DPS is the highest among all of its peers because it's a sure penetration on almost every Allied vehicle. If you can not grasp that you are the delusional one.

Please master of calculation, show me a formula of "effective dps" how you claim it. A Vet 3 Jackson with Armour piercing rounds has 100 % to penetrate a Tiger and likewise an SU85 fires with a high rate that makes penetration values negligible.

Great, I love how balance discutions are going on around here especially the ones directed towards Ostheer. So what Ostheer have right now? An untouchable T4 with questionable units besides the Panther which is to expensive. Meanwhile we accuse the "Tiger call in meta".

Solution: make tiger weakest heavy tank (done), but wait, there is still a way for ostheer to resist - we have the Panther and it's too efective! Nurf Panther and let Ostheer without solutions, fucking nazi bastards they deserved it!

Result => Startgame - Ostheer sucks. Middle game - Ostheer sucks. Late game - Ostheer what? Sucks, of course, what else?

Nerf Panther, buff other things if we find Ostheer is underpowered. Why would you support Ostheer sucking and then depending on an overperforming easy to use too little risk and too much reward tank OR their call in heavy tank if you love Ostheer so much, you should be supporting a Panther nerf and a buff to other things as right now Panther just kills any grounds an Ostheer player may have to ask for a buff. If you love Ostheer so much stop whining with abandon whenever someone rightfully points out something is not right with them. Ostheer is my favourite faction too but you would never see me defending an OP aspect of it like a rabid fanboy in denial.

It's the most expensive medium vehicle in game. It should outperform any medium, which it doesn't at it's current state. And in 1vs1 it's not affordable at all.

@FaustCostBulletin: Have you tried playing any other game mode aside from your own mini mod and comp stomp?

Please master of calculation, show me a formula of "effective dps" how you claim it. A Vet 3 Jackson with Armour piercing rounds has 100 % to penetrate a Tiger and likewise an SU85 fires with a high rate that makes penetration values negligible.

Veterancy. Abilities. Most Jacksons on the field won't live to see Vet 3 if they simply don't penetrate. I have never seen in 700 hours a Vet 3 Jackson slaying Tigers or Panthers all that happened was that Tiger or Panther simply backed off with Blitz and or smoke. SU 85 on average requires 8 shots to destroy a Panther at maximum range, Panther kills it in 3. Jackson requires 6, Panther kills it in 3. And not to mention that is RNG when there is no RNG for Panther, only sure penetration.

It's the most expensive medium vehicle in game. It should outperform any medium, which it doesn't at it's current state. And in 1vs1 it's not affordable at all.

@FaustCostBulletin: Have you tried playing any other game mode aside from your own mini mod and comp stomp?

I love how you made an account to bash me. Of course, I do not even play comstomp and I played my minimod with some pretty good players, alongside automatch which I still do play

What medium does it absolutely not eradicate, we are talking about not even tank destroyers being able to stand up to it.

Veterancy. Abilities. Most Jacksons on the field won't live to see Vet 3 if they simply don't penetrate. I have never seen in 700 hours a Vet 3 Jackson slaying Tigers or Panthers all that happened was that Tiger or Panther simply backed off with Blitz and or smoke. SU 85 on average requires 8 shots to destroy a Panther at maximum range, Panther kills it in 3. Jackson requires 6, Panther kills it in 3. And not to mention that is RNG when there is no RNG for Panther, only sure penetration.

Everytime I play USF I have a vetted jackson. I simply get a early scott or sherman vet them up and change the vehicle crews. USF don't have problems to get a vetted Jackson. If you never done that in 700 hours of gameplay I suggest to play the game more, watch replays & casts and stop doing pointless balance threads.

Everytime I play USF I have a vetted jackson. I simply get a early scott or sherman vet them up and change the vehicle crews. USF don't have problems to get a vetted Jackson. If you never done that in 700 hours of gameplay I suggest to play the game more, watch replays & casts and stop doing pointless balance threads.

You can do that. I have not seen anyone do that and I don't play USF much. Anyway this has nothing to do with USF, it has everything to do with how Panther is an easy mode A-move crutch that has the best traits among its class. Its only shortcoming, same DPS as a T34 is made up by how it never fails to penetrate most Allied vehicles.

Its only shortcoming, same DPS as a T34 is made up by how it never fails to penetrate most Allied vehicles.

Because it comes at a premium cost? Those rules of more expensive units being able to beat cheaper units still apply.
P4 gets absolutely dominated by the Easy8 for only 20 fuel more, do you see anyone complain? For every Panther you need two tank destroyers.

if you love Ostheer so much, you should be supporting a Panther nerf and a buff to other things as right now Panther just kills any grounds an Ostheer player may have to ask for a buff. If you love Ostheer so much stop whining with abandon whenever someone rightfully points out something is not right with them.

A buff to other things? The ones allied fanboys tried so hard to accomplish on these forums? Ah c'mon you can't ruin their work. Get real man. Most of forum people are admitting ostheer is currently shit, and OFC it would need some buffs but it will never get them. So let the competent units ostheer still has out of your nurfing fury.

Ostheer is my favourite faction too but you would never see me defending an OP aspect of it like a rabid fanboy in denial.

I chose not to believe that. I mean your love for ostheer is outstanding and so obvious. I don't love ostheer that much. My favourite factions are the "abusive" factions of WFA, meaning USF and OKW, but I am realy astonished about the amount of pudding you are writing.

Because it comes at a premium cost? Those rules of more expensive units being able to beat cheaper units still apply.
P4 gets absolutely dominated by the Easy8 for only 20 fuel more, do you see anyone complain? For every Panther you need two tank destroyers.

The problem with that statement is that tank destroyers are not Panther. They can't soak damage, they can't conveniently get away from trouble using cheap abilities and they can't crush infantry without facing panzerschreck. They can't resist snare with supreme armor, they can't kill one tank when in a 2v1 and then run from the other and they don't have the luxury of not facing Panzerschrecks. Panther is an advantageous position, two tank destroyers are far more expensive than the Panther, less reliable, less powerful without vet boosting their poor penetration chances, and less versatile. Panther-first is a thing for OKW, but you will never see SU-85 first.

JohnnyB is right. About time you change your avatar. "Look I have a natsi in my avatar so my arguments are not biased"

And I didn't attack you, I just said if you want to gain a more realistic view on the current balance, you need to play more 1VS1 games aside from your own mini mod.


No further explanation needed. This unit is the most expensive vehicle in game, it doesn't need any change, aside from lowering it's fuel cost.

The problem with that statement is that tank destroyers are not Panther. They can't soak damage, they can't conveniently get away from trouble using cheap abilities and they can't crush infantry without facing panzerschreck. They can't resist snare with supreme armor, they can't kill one tank when in a 2v1 and then run from the other and they don't have the luxury of not facing Panzerschrecks. Panther is an advantageous position, two tank destroyers are far more expensive than the Panther, less reliable, less powerful without vet boosting their poor penetration chances, and less versatile. Panther-first is a thing for OKW, but you will never see SU-85 first.

Yes it's the designated role of a panther to dive into enemy territory and destroy fuel units (there is even an achievement for that), thus it's called tank hunter and not tank destroyers, which are defensive units. Nerf it and you won't see it again, like it once was. Congratulations, you now made the game more dull and less versatile.

It's the first choice of OKW players, because raketenwerfers don't cut it and the JP4 doesn't do well against an IS2, which you see in about 50 % of the games.
It's the first choice because shermans, t34s come out around 10 minutes while panthers come out around minute 15. Why would you ever go for a SU85 first? It's needed to counter tanks, not to wreak havoc among infantry, which is what you want to do in early game.

A buff to other things? The ones allied fanboys tried so hard to accomplish on these forums? Ah c'mon you can't ruin their work. Get real man. Most of forum people are admitting ostheer is currently shit, and OFC it would need some buffs but it will never get them. So let the competent units ostheer still has out of your nurfing fury.
I chose not to believe that. I mean your love for ostheer is outstanding and so obvious. I don't love ostheer that much. My favourite factions are the "abusive" factions of WFA, meaning USF and OKW, but I am realy astonished about the amount of pudding you are writing.

I didn't want to bring it up but if you have seen my minimod, you'd know how many buffs I gave Ostheer; unlike Soviets, Ostheer got a direct buff in pacing. Believe what you will, but just because I point out what is overperforming in a faction doesn't mean I hate them. I think I can rightly say I did far more of an effort than you did to shape Ostheer into an even more viable and interesting faction; all you do is to counterwhine Allied complaining.

JohnnyB is right. About time you change your avatar. "Look I have a natsi in my avatar so my arguments are not biased"

And I didn't attack you, I just said if you want to gain a more realistic view on the current balance, you need to play more 1VS1 games aside from your own mini mod.


No further explanation needed. This units is the most expensive vehicle in game, it doesn't need any change, aside from lowering it's fuel cost.

Yeah that's Captain Kirk. It already feels like I'm breaking the prime directive by talking to you.

I'm not denying that Panther may not be a realistic goal in 1v1. But I already explained myself by saying that that is only caused by the call-in meta and how Tiger is a good enough substitute, and that Ostheer MP teching costs are out of this world. Both of which I addressed, and both problems which should be fixed, ideally at the same time with a Panther nerf.

Panther is hard to reach in 1v1, that's not the case in 2v2 and above. And once you get it, it's too cost effective.

And if you seriously want its fuel cost reduced, you're the biased one here.