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russian armor

Conscripts scaling to late game...

17 Mar 2015, 17:32 PM
#21
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



It's not when used with Ooourah.
Ppsh+Ooourah can force Obers to retreat.

Look closer at replay with T34s.
2 cons with Ppsh were melting 2 Volks.


Great, cons that already beat volks now beat volks!

I'm sorry but when I have shock troops and whatnot available my enthusiasm for destroying my cons DPS outside of point blank range is rather low.

An upgrade that gives them SvT's or an LMG would help give them a roll instead of just making them shittier shock troops with a worse weapon profile.
17 Mar 2015, 17:34 PM
#22
avatar of FaustCostBulletin

Posts: 521



Great, cons that already beat volks now beat volks!

I'm sorry but when I have shock troops and whatnot available my enthusiasm for destroying my cons DPS outside of point blank range is rather low.

An upgrade that gives them SvT's or an LMG would help give them a roll instead of just making them shittier shock troops with a worse weapon profile.


I have two questions though.

1. At what point would that upgrade arrive?
2. Wouldn't it overlap with Penals?
17 Mar 2015, 17:37 PM
#23
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



Great, cons that already beat volks now beat volks!

I'm sorry but when I have shock troops and whatnot available my enthusiasm for destroying my cons DPS outside of point blank range is rather low.

An upgrade that gives them SvT's or an LMG would help give them a roll instead of just making them shittier shock troops with a worse weapon profile.


Cons not always will beat Volks, but even so, it takes XX seconds.
With Ppsh+oourah it takes 3-6secs.
17 Mar 2015, 17:43 PM
#24
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



I have two questions though.

1. At what point would that upgrade arrive?
2. Wouldn't it overlap with Penals?


1. 3-4 CP like most upgrades

2. Nope, give them scoped SvT rifles that function like G43s.



Cons not always will beat Volks, but even so, it takes XX seconds.
With Ppsh+oourah it takes 3-6secs.


The issue is cons are very fragile late game, so while your charging out of cover your just going to get mowed down. Shocks have armor for a reason. I would rather have my cons do better mid to long range dps.
17 Mar 2015, 17:48 PM
#25
avatar of FaustCostBulletin

Posts: 521



1. 3-4 CP like most upgrades

2. Nope, give them scoped SvT rifles that function like G43s.



The issue is cons are very fragile late game, so while your charging out of cover your just going to get mowed down. Shocks have armor for a reason. I would rather have my cons do better mid to long range dps.


Regular G43s don't snipe, and the point of this is to avoid doctrinal upgrades anyway.
17 Mar 2015, 17:48 PM
#26
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

Conscripts have a low cost to reinforce, are numerous and weak. They are designed around being cannon-fodder. This can lead to some problems later on versus upgraded axis troops.

I think it would be cool if there was an upgrade (similar to the Molotov, AT-nade upgrades... maybe 200mp, 50 fuel) that increased their squad size by two members. This upgrade could be tied to T3/T4 to not come too early.

Russians revolving around MGs the same way as the Germans is unrealistic and copy-paste design.
17 Mar 2015, 17:51 PM
#27
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Regular G43s don't snipe, and the point of this is to avoid doctrinal upgrades anyway.


So? Give them SvT's with scopes that increase long range DPS when you hit t3/t4, keep the PPsH doctrinal.
17 Mar 2015, 17:52 PM
#28
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

Conscripts have a low cost to reinforce, are numerous and weak. They are designed around being cannon-fodder. This can lead to some problems later on versus upgraded axis troops.

I think it would be cool if there was an upgrade (similar to the Molotov, AT-nade upgrades... maybe 200mp, 50 fuel) that increased their squad size by two members. This upgrade could be tied to T3/T4 to not come too early.

Russians revolving around MGs the same way as the Germans is unrealistic and copy-paste design.

While decreasing their reinforce cost down to 240/2/8 = 15?
17 Mar 2015, 17:53 PM
#29
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

8 men squads lol, reminds me of that bug were sometimes your entire con squad would merge with a unit and you would get a unit with 11 men.
17 Mar 2015, 17:56 PM
#30
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
Cons are OK

especially when u combine them with shocks
17 Mar 2015, 17:59 PM
#31
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

My suggestion from the last thread about this topic:

Why not implement something that is already in the game?

I remember the campaign had units called Frontowiki squads. They are basically buffed cons with ppsh and ai nades.

My suggestion would be to give cons the option to upgrade to these Frontowiki squads once they reach vet 3. For a small manpower and munitions price + t3 or t4 researched .

By this the Soviet faction manage to scale their cons well into the late game. It would support combined arms because you'd still need 1-2 cons squads for at nades and sandbags.

And fanboys would get their battle hardened core infantry that has a better name than conscripts.
17 Mar 2015, 17:59 PM
#32
avatar of ATCF
Donator 33

Posts: 587

Cons are OK

especially when u combine them with shocks


Combine them with shocks and watch how the enemy troops hit VET 3 in crazy speeds MVGame
17 Mar 2015, 18:13 PM
#33
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

My suggestion from the last thread about this topic:

Why not implement something that is already in the game?

I remember the campaign had units called Frontowiki squads. They are basically buffed cons with ppsh and ai nades.

My suggestion would be to give cons the option to upgrade to these Frontowiki squads once they reach vet 3. For a small manpower and munitions price + t3 or t4 researched .

By this the Soviet faction manage to scale their cons well into the late game. It would support combined arms because you'd still need 1-2 cons squads for at nades and sandbags.

And fanboys would get their battle hardened core infantry that has a better name than conscripts.


Frontoviki squads are practically conscripts with ppsh package + ai nade... Exactly. Nothing. Its doctrinal and its a downgrade.

There's no point touching conscripts ever. They only "scale" to the role of cannon fodder and that is the only thing theyll be able to do. Conscripts win games with their low upkeep and cheap reinforce, not with firepower.
17 Mar 2015, 18:19 PM
#34
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2015, 17:59 PMATCF


Combine them with shocks and watch how the enemy troops hit VET 3 in crazy speeds MVGame


Spam cons and mines/demos and 1-2 shocks and watch how you get 90% map control MVGame
17 Mar 2015, 18:19 PM
#35
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Cons with PPSH will make them more viable late game, especially in a commander with no Shocks.
17 Mar 2015, 18:20 PM
#36
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Like how Penals get Oorah at vet 2, give Cons satchel charges at vet 2
17 Mar 2015, 18:20 PM
#37
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3



Frontoviki squads are practically conscripts with ppsh package + ai nade... Exactly. Nothing. Its doctrinal and its a downgrade.

There's no point touching conscripts ever. They only "scale" to the role of cannon fodder and that is the only thing theyll be able to do. Conscripts win games with their low upkeep and cheap reinforce, not with firepower.


You could always adjust their received accuracy & dmg output to make them better than cons.
17 Mar 2015, 18:22 PM
#38
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

How about giving them back their old veterancy ability? It gave more accuracy to the squad as it's members died (10-15 muni it was).
17 Mar 2015, 18:22 PM
#39
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2015, 17:59 PMATCF


Combine them with shocks and watch how the enemy troops hit VET 3 in crazy speeds MVGame

Pretty much.

Merging cons with shocks, well, you could just as well write with barb wire "please, farm vet on my squad that will die before it'll get in range".
17 Mar 2015, 18:28 PM
#40
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

Like how Penals get Oorah at vet 2, give Cons satchel charges at vet 2


Conspam would become VERY strong against OKW trucks; that would be very lethal... (And those special buildings which molotovs are useless against...) The penal-conscript exchange, Kappa.

The problem of suggesting late game utility for conscripts is that they either become very much like shocks, guards, or penals... Which the latter (except current guards) is still preferred (since we cant have cons replace other infantry).

Damn Relic shoving every option and suggestion in commanders.
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