What to do vs heavy infantry spam

Like, what am i supposed to do if my opponent either goes full volks (about 5),

Or 4 Volks and 3 Jägers...and a Flak HT..

I cant keep up with capping and i cant win most of my engagements, because Volks soak it all up and Jägers keep sniping my infantry and throw nades everywhere.

Whats the counter?

Like, what am i supposed to do if my opponent either goes full volks (about 5),

Or 4 Volks and 3 Jägers...and a Flak HT..

I cant keep up with capping and i cant win most of my engagements, because Volks soak it all up and Jägers keep sniping my infantry and throw nades everywhere.

Whats the counter?

As long as its an open map, and you keep your units compact, Maxim spam shuts down Volksspam. Call in Shocks for good measure.

Like how many Maxims and what other infantry units you usually use?

Depends, but 4-5 with 2 conscripts and flamer engies in the mix pretty much nullify OKW infantry game. You are not gonna even bleed him much, he will just have no map control. Shocks synergize well with this since they are ideal for forcing retreats and defending against building borne call-ins.
Early T2 also gives added stability since you get strong AT right away if necessary, shutting down OKW mechanised play. This sort of build will often prompt a Stuka from the OKW player, and that means gg for him.

Generally, what LeYawn said is pretty solid, however, do not go maximspam vs anything ever as you will get absolutely destroyed by anyone with a clue. 1-2 maxims are okay.


you can do a couple of things.


4 cons > T2 > maxim > maxim > shocks

6 cons (my favourite OpieOP)

3 cons, M3, cons, gaurds or something

Penal battalions while underused, are probaly the best scaling soviet infantry right now, since their flamethrowers ignore OKW matrix bullet dodging skills once they get their vet.

Of course, double snipers into gaurds into t-34/85s still hangs about there, but its very risky because of the luchs.

In the mid-late game, as you lose conscripts, you will want to replace them with engineers, and spam them. Flamethrower engineers are once again good since they ignore OKW matrix skills.


Never underestimate the power of a quick T3 vs OKW. Infact, a quick t-34/76 or t-70 is incredibly good vs OKW, because you will need something to counter the luchs.

1 cons > T2 > maxim > maxim > 3 cons > shocks > T70

Get more flamers as munitions allow and if there are lots of buildings to hide in. Dont forget to use cons merge keeping your flamers on the field longer.

The problem with early cons spam is that aggressive OKW player can win early engagements with truck push + SP + kubel. Early mgs shut that down easily and make the SP/kubel retreat and mgs dont drain much manpower so its easy to spam cons after that. No reason to get at grenades vs kubel, just use mgs + flanking cons.

Another reason to get two mgs are that it might force OKW into wasting 30 munitions on grenades which makes your T70 stronger as they have less munitions for shreaks.

Generally, what LeYawn said is pretty solid, however, do not go maximspam vs anything ever as you will get absolutely destroyed by anyone with a clue. 1-2 maxims are okay.


you can do a couple of things.


4 cons > T2 > maxim > maxim > shocks

6 cons (my favourite OpieOP)

3 cons, M3, cons, gaurds or something

Penal battalions while underused, are probaly the best scaling soviet infantry right now, since their flamethrowers ignore OKW matrix bullet dodging skills once they get their vet.

Of course, double snipers into gaurds into t-34/85s still hangs about there, but its very risky because of the luchs.

In the mid-late game, as you lose conscripts, you will want to replace them with engineers, and spam them. Flamethrower engineers are once again good since they ignore OKW matrix skills.


Never underestimate the power of a quick T3 vs OKW. Infact, a quick t-34/76 or t-70 is incredibly good vs OKW, because you will need something to counter the luchs.

Why so many cons? They don't scale well into mid late game, you'll lose them no matter what.

4 cons are already heavy manpower drain, 5-6? Risky and not very cost effective agains equal skill opponents.

Better getting more flame engins, maxin, shock etc etc then transform into armor.

Heavy maxim spam into shocks.

Heavy maxim spam into shocks.

1v1

I go for 4 cons and play rather defensively to avoid model losses whilst I choose Guard Motor Coordination Doctrine. Once I have reached 2 CPs I call in 1 (in case of Flak HT so I can build fast ZiS) or 2 (in case of Luchs because it comes later) 120mm Mortars to deal with infantry. Upgrading AT nades is a must have.

Other than that, mines and especially demos will help a lot!

If you want a semi hard counter to heavy volk spam, there is a little known soviet commander called, wait for it... ANTI INFANTRY TACTICS. (yeah I know, right?)


Now it may normally be under used and is slightly weaker than the relatively more common Terror tactics.

BUT, good use of fear prop, and flame arty, both which come early and a fast KV8, is doom for a blob of volks.

Use fear prop to suppress the blob, some will retreat, attack, follow back to their medic truck, flame arty it and press attack. They will either take huge losses, or if forward retreat and they cancel and retreat to main Base, kill the undefended medic truck.

T-70 might be too risky of a play, but if your opponent builds flak HT than you have some time to kite infantry. I would def build Maxims for sure and shocks.

I go for 4 cons and play rather defensively to avoid model losses whilst I choose Guard Motor Coordination Doctrine. Once I have reached 2 CPs I call in 1 (in case of Flak HT so I can build fast ZiS) or 2 (in case of Luchs because it comes later) 120mm Mortars to deal with infantry. Upgrading AT nades is a must have.

Other than that, mines and especially demos will help a lot!

What do you think SU85 instead of zis against luchs or puma? In fact SU85 is way better than zis due to focused sight and mobility. With zis its harder to be aggresive. But its harder to get in time. And it delays IS2 latter. Double SU85 makes it impossible to get IS2 in most games.
Puma or luchs causes most problems for me. Flak not so much

t2 sux in 1v1 and 2v2. Better are 5/4 (depending on your multicasting) cons into 2 dp guards or schocks. And then, t2 is welcome for zis, nothing else. Also you could spend some ammo for 2 flamers for engineers, very helpful

@Up, guards, at nades, mines and zis gives you great defend against fap ht. Quick Puma is not a problem at all, guards should be enough

What do you think SU85 instead of zis against luchs or puma? In fact SU85 is way better than zis due to focused sight and mobility. With zis its harder to be aggresive. But its harder to get in time. And it delays IS2 latter. Double SU85 makes it impossible to get IS2 in most games.
Puma or luchs causes most problems for me. Flak not so much

As you said building T4 and producing SU85 will delay your call ins significantly. If you sit on low fuel it might be impossible to field SU85 as well as call ins.

Therefore you have to make a decision. SU85 excels versus armour and structures exclusively which is infact not the case with call in tanks (let's say in this case IS-2/double T34/85) whilst the call ins we talk about are effective versus both infantry and armour. OKW can engage your SU85 rather easily with schreck blobs and raketens or PaK43 whilst your call in tanks can engage infantry and might even oneshoot them.

Furthermore, if you can't handle Puma/Luchs without SU85, try to engage them with a combination of ZiS/Guards (from Guards Motor Coordination Doctrine) and AT nades or mines.

try to engage them with a combination of ZiS/Guards (from Guards Motor Coordination Doctrine) and AT nades or mines.

When I engage small tank with 2 guards (with support of sniper and penals) it ussualy safely retreats being almost destroyed killing 6-10 models of guards dealing economic damage. And taking much less damage cuz repair is free. After that I play from behind and it just snowballs.
Generaly I dont see how I should engage luchs with guards cuz A click gurds vs A click luchs is win for luchs.
Will try zis and guards. I played one or another.

Another bad thing for me is that zis not so good dealing with OKW shooting buiding, while SU85 is exelent against it. So now for me SU85 is 100% better than ZIS, but may not worth its total price (not only unit price, but price in general )
I wonder how much ZIS barrages it takes to destroy OKW shooting building, or maybe I just can use "attack ground"?

May be I will also try 2CE > 3 penals > 2 guards > 1sniper > 1 SU85 with an effort to get IS2.

Very Bad also that in coh2 there is no unit test map. So I should ask so many questions. What you think of engaging luchs with guards inside M3 to avoid MP loss if M3 is not desroyed?

When I engage small tank with 2 guards (with support of sniper and penals) it ussualy safely retreats being almost destroyed killing 6-10 models of guards dealing economic damage. And taking much less damage cuz repair is free. After that I play from behind and it just snowballs.
Generaly I dont see how I should engage luchs with guards cuz A click gurds vs A click luchs is win for luchs.
Will try zis and guards. I played one or another.

Another bad thing for me is that zis not so good dealing with OKW shooting buiding, while SU85 is exelent against it. So now for me SU85 is 100% better than ZIS, but may not worth its total price (not only unit price, but price in general )
I wonder how much ZIS barrages it takes to destroy OKW shooting building, or maybe I just can use "attack ground"?

May be I will also try 2CE > 3 penals > 2 guards > 1sniper > 1 SU85 with an effort to get IS2.

Very Bad also that in coh2 there is no unit test map. So I should ask so many questions. What you think of engaging luchs with guards inside M3 to avoid MP loss if M3 is not desroyed?

Firstly, you have to damage Luchs' engine with either AT nades from conscripts or mine. When you go for T1 (Sniper, Penal, M3) it is obvious your OKW opponent goes for Mechanised Regiment Headquarters which allows him to produce Flak HT, Puma and Stuka. Afterwards OKW players usually build Luchs to counter your build.

Secondly, even multiple ZiS barrages will not be a viable option for destroying OKW buildings because their shots are not evenly spread which means not every shot will hit the OKW building you aim at which results in wasting munitions you need for mines or AT nades. I do not know how many barrages it would take to destroy OKW buildings since nobody uses this unviable approach. A better option is to use "attack ground" as you said. Two ZiS guns using "attack ground" should be enough to destroy OKW buildings. Keep in mind though ZiS guns can be decrewed easily by Obers or Luchs.

Thirdly, using guards inside M3 is pretty risky. Your OKW opponent will surely have at least one schrecked up Volksgrenadier squad to counter vehicles and Luchs itself destroys M3 quite swiftly. By losing M3 with Guards being garrisoned inside Guards will suffer casualties. I can imagine a scenario where Luchs is on low health and you can hunt it with Guards inside M3 but even then you need two Guards/M3 to make it viable. I do not recommend Guards inside M3 to counter Luchs.

t2 sux in 1v1 and 2v2.

for me T1 is the best Tier avilable. I would say T2 (espesialy) and T3 sux lot more often. T3 seems nedded only in case of big advantage to finish off the loosing oponent.

And surely I m absolutely not interested in 2v2 5v5 etc. play only 1v1 coh chess and sc. Dont even remember when i played non 1v1, it was years ago

T70 supported by shocks is a beast against OKW now. Kiting volks shreaks with T70 is easier due to long range accuracy nerf. Cons with at grenades are also good now because OKW need puma to shut down the T70/shocks combo or OKW will lose to much map control.
Mgs + cons are still viable on maps where its hard to flank with con spam but only if supported by early T70/T76 + maybe a zis gun to counter flak ht. Cons provide good AT defence against puma so OKW dont need zis guns until panther or flak ht. The primary reason why mgs are viable are because it can bait OKW into spending munitions for grenades which they really need for obers/shreaks or they might go infiltration grenades = no pak43.


If OKW dont get early obers/falls then shocks will rape volks. If they get early obers then they have less shreaks to counter early T70. OKW still got a strong late game but it takes longer to get going because obers cost munitions. If soviet + USF focus to starve axis from munitions they can usually win the early+mid game. Imo allies early/mid game are pretty OP now in 1vs1 but 2vs2 are pretty balanced.

T70 supported by shocks is a beast against OKW now. Kiting volks shreaks with T70 is easier due to long range accuracy nerf. Cons with at grenades are also good now because OKW need puma to shut down the T70/shocks combo or OKW will lose to much map control.

May be if I open with T1 alternative to T70 is M3 with guards. Plus guards are OK vs Puma and now better vs all vehicle including tanks.


Nice thing about recent patch that blobbers have found that their skilly strategy to A click with 3+ squads is not that good anymore.


And I was mistaken saying that su85 is better than zis in everithing. It has slower rotation.