4v4, close air support or strafing doctrine

Just played a 4v4 on city 17 ( I think its called). We played against two OKW players, who made nothing but volksgrenadiers and mg 34s. They kept rushing ahead whilst their Ostheer teammates kept dropping strafing runs on our units, completely rendering them useless in almost every engagement. Got a B4 up, got bombed, got katties, they got strafed and faced the doom of the shreck blobs, got kv1s and t34s, both faced the shreck blobs, which infantry couldn't stop due to the strafes.

Anyone any advice on how to deal with that? Or just call it GG and leave as soon as you grasp this strategy and see that there is no way to countering it?

And before you do, I know they will come, no comments on oh l2p just do a 1v1 bladiebla. I like 4v4s, they give me the idea of a huge battle, which I like.

Any advice would help.

So... You saw CAS and still went for B4?

Give us a replay.

>> got katties, they got strafed

You don't want L2P, okay.

L2M (Learn to Move).

So... You saw CAS and still went for B4?

Give us a replay.

I took it right at the start of the game, like to play with it.

>> got katties, they got strafed

You don't want L2P, okay.

L2M (Learn to Move).

Oh come on dude... how pathetic is this comment?

I moved the every time, after they fired I moved them back, but when I moved them up to shoot, they attacked with two shreck blobs, they instantly dropped strafes, you know the pathing of katties, its horrible..

L2P, sure, but L2P has nothing to do with stacking 3 bulletins of reduced suppression on volks and roaming the battlefield freely, or being strafed constantly as soon as the blobs come in your sights..

That is called 'Getting Reliced'

I took it right at the start of the game, like to play with it.

CAS is not powerful cause of planes... It's powerful cause of fuel->muni

Planes are only useful (AT ones) against blocked tanks, immobile or with engine damage.
If strafe gets fully mobile vehicle... well.. You know the answer.

I took it right at the start of the game, like to play with it.

That would be a mistake. When you see that one or more of your opponents have CAS, Luftwaffe Supply, or that Elephant doctrine with Stuka Dive Bomb you have to wait before choosing a commander with arty. If you choose a commander right off the bat you risk having your arty bombed like it was.

Even then in team games there are some fun combos like Arty Flares + Stuka Dive Bomb that can take out static arty without needing Stuka and Recon in one commander but at least that requires more coordination from a team.

Just played a 4v4 on city 17 ( I think its called). We played against two OKW players, who made nothing but volksgrenadiers and mg 34s. They kept rushing ahead whilst their Ostheer teammates kept dropping strafing runs on our units, completely rendering them useless in almost every engagement. Got a B4 up, got bombed, got katties, they got strafed and faced the doom of the shreck blobs, got kv1s and t34s, both faced the shreck blobs, which infantry couldn't stop due to the strafes.

Anyone any advice on how to deal with that? Or just call it GG and leave as soon as you grasp this strategy and see that there is no way to countering it?

And before you do, I know they will come, no comments on oh l2p just do a 1v1 bladiebla. I like 4v4s, they give me the idea of a huge battle, which I like.

Any advice would help.

So.. You built B-4 when you saw CAS. Your just asking to get banged by it.

I took it right at the start of the game, like to play with it.

Its called Counter-picking and Axis dose it all the time.

Shock rifle frontline and Shock motor heavy is the counter to CAS.
Don't blob so hard; The JU-87 7.92mm strafe is a skill shot.
And move your kat trucks when you see any planes. and keep the kats spread out.

and this is why I don't really like this community. Never mind then, thank you for your reactions and I am out of this horrible peace of a 'community'.

May relic purge your wallets even further.

Bye

You are right when you´re angry about the flame. You have kindly asked for help and advice.

But I must agree your commander choice right at the beginning of the match was not first class as Cabreza and the others mentioned.

and this is why I don't really like this community. Never mind then, thank you for your reactions and I am out of this horrible peace of a 'community'.

May relic purge your wallets even further.

Bye

Gets Rekt.
Asks for advice on forums.
Gets advice.
Doesn't like advice.
Quits forums.

We'll miss you Nathanm

May I ask what your teammates commander choices have been? Did you play with randoms or AT? Did you have a strat? Did your team have FlakHT´s? I mean, without a replay it is a bit difficult to give you direct advices.

yep. building b4 was a mistake. the b4 commander has other good abilities/ call ins as well.

no real definitive counterplay/unit to this really.

if you complain about AI strafing run, ppl will tell you to stop blobbing, even though a unit 25-30 range away from the unit getting strafed will also get AOE suppressed.

if you complain about AT strafe, ppl will tell you to l2p. in a long 4v4, you might have to dodge more than 20 strafes. of course, you'll miss one or two and a unit or two is vaporised.

allies' only real advantage over axis in late game, heavy artillery is obviously 100% nullified.



I'd say ISU152 might be only unit that is closest to being a counter to this commander. simply because it still wipes unit from range like no other.

Was this AT versus Random?

Here are some post which might help you. I don´t want to discuss them about their value but they might give you an idea how to deal with CAS.

When you see CAS in Ostheer's loadout, hold out on picking a commander until you are sure he has CAS, and pick either Guards motor coordination or shock rifle. Both deal with CAS really well in terms of ignoring strafes/strikes and blowing up the infantry Ostheer spends munitions on.

Its the only alternative commander other than a commander with a tiger/elefant.

I have counterattack tactics centered bulletins in my loadout to fool people into going CAS, and they later get crushed by T34/85's or IS-2's.

As for USF, do what USF does best.

I use CAS a lot so let me break it down:

CAS is primarily used for (at least in my case) to counter Artillery happy allied players.

The JU-87 and its 37mm AT strafe is one pass and a skillshot and has a very long cooldown
(I believe its 80s)

This being the case unless your tank is right on the edge of the map you normally wont have trouble dodging it if your micro is at least decent.
In team setups however, It is essential to have to prevent B-4 spamming cheese.

The AI strafe is IMO the strongest part of the doctrine as it lets you spam LMG's and win every engagement vs US rifle spam. While this is a cheesy solution It is currently one of the only effective ones as boxes are now not worth the doctrine choice if you discount the OKW fuel boosting.
(Also a cheese strat)

This is the only Wehrmacht doctrine that gets a AI strafe other than Assault support and that is also now a joke due to the nerfs to the Opal truck and tiger just not being the tank it used to be.

Fuel to muni transfer is the same as its always been, You are cutting tanks on a faction with already high fuel costs.

And finally the effective stuka dive bomb.

At the end of the day When playing on a team you must have it equipped for B4's or Arty spam.

Shock rifle frontline counters this very well, As well as good kat truck play.
ISU-152 if cared for properly will absolutely shit on this as he wont have many tanks if any.

If you must infantry blob vs this, the AI strafe can be dodged so its not a auto win 1 click like the
Opal one is.

For USF Scotts work great, As well as bulldozer Shermans. HE Shermans can work too.

And demo's are generally very effective vs this type of play.

So gimmicky and unfun to play against.

FHQ and B-4 in team games are very unfun to play against as well when you don't have proper counters at your disposal. Especially against a coordinated team. The fact that B-4 Has the potential to 1 shot a JT,KT,TA is broken since it has precision strike and is smokeless.

Wish LeFH was even close to being as good since it costs the same its kinda a joke.

CAS AT strafe will destroy any arty effortlessly

This is also correct the 110 MU 37mm strafe will 1 shot Fixed guns 95% of the time (It can fail due to it being on a weird hill incline or behind trees or a building)

Shock rifle frontline and Shock motor heavy is the counter to CAS.
Don't blob so hard; The JU-87 7.92mm strafe is a skill shot.
And move your kat trucks when you see any planes. and keep the kats spread out.

Oh come on dude... how pathetic is this comment?

I moved the every time, after they fired I moved them back, but when I moved them up to shoot, they attacked with two shreck blobs, they instantly dropped strafes, you know the pathing of katties, its horrible..

L2P, sure, but L2P has nothing to do with stacking 3 bulletins of reduced suppression on volks and roaming the battlefield freely, or being strafed constantly as soon as the blobs come in your sights..

That is called 'Getting Reliced'

L2M could be the truest and simplest for your problem.

(1) I find Katyusha does not need the so called move forward to shoot more accurate theory, their saturation of fire is more than enough.

(2) When you see smoke, you don't move, it's your problem. That's why I said L2M. Move one inch away then you are safe (assume those are Close Air Support skillplanes). And how on earth you fire your Katy in axis LOS? Losing tanks to CAS anti-tank Stuka is like losing infantry to off map arty, it's your fault, not the ability. It has smoke, a very specific warning that units shouting LUFTWAFFE or AIRSTRIKE, and it arrived like 3 seconds after the smoke.

(3) I never have problems against COH2 Volksspam, and I find myself using pure Volksspam is like throwing games away. They may be durable but they can't shoot shit before vet.

Conclusion, L2P L2M.

L2M could be the truest and simplest for your problem.

(1) I find Katyusha does not need the so called move forward to shoot more accurate theory, their saturation of fire is more than enough.

(2) When you see smoke, you don't move, it's your problem. That's why I said L2M. Move one inch away then you are safe (assume those are Close Air Support skillplanes). And how on earth you fire your Katy in axis LOS? Losing tanks to CAS anti-tank Stuka is like losing infantry to off map arty, it's your fault, not the ability. It has smoke, a very specific warning that units shouting LUFTWAFFE or AIRSTRIKE, and it arrived like 3 seconds after the smoke.

(3) I never have problems against COH2 Volksspam, and I find myself using pure Volksspam is like throwing games away. They may be durable but they can't shoot shit before vet.

Conclusion, L2P L2M.

Being so aggressive is part of your nature when you give advices to someone playing Ally faction? your feeling Allied players = brainless ennemis is taking over your rationality, you should react.

Most of what you say is interesting but in fact the part where you are aggressive is out of frame since you do not have experience in 4vs4.
2vs2 blobs and 4vs4 blobs aren't at the same level and you don't need vetted volks to make a good use of Shrek when you have 5 squads in an A-move blob at 8min mark, if you hit with half of them in two salves before you retreat, GG you already kill anything that is not medium and almost kill anything that is medium.

Anyway, Allied players need to adapt in 4vs4, this is true, strategies based on heavy arty or kat spam is on the back foot today with the CAS doctrine being so common. What still works is the usual call-in meta IS2/T34 85 and being really aggressive early game. There is also maybe enough room to see the ISU coming back since you'll see less heavies (no tigers, no elephant).

Doing a bit of cross-posting but Allied mechanized doctrine / fast jeep + Soviet T1 / fast M3 has a really good potential to counter the basic 3 okw kubel start + 1 ostheer MG / bunker.

First of all, it's a 4v4, deal with it. Just to be clear, I'm not saying don't play 4v4 or anything, just stating the obvious: There is practically no resource limitations in 4v4, and CAS just need a couple of muni caches. So, the major problem is that the muni starved Ostheer, is not starved and is actually loaded with muni.

On a more strategical perspective, first of all, a replay would help. Secondly, your best chance is to use the small window between the strafes (cooldowns). It might be hard, and needs a LOT OF TEAMWORK, which is hard in randumbs without voice communication, but here is what I suggest:

One of the players should sacrifice most of his army for a diversion attack, force OKW players to move their forces, and forces CAS to use both of their abilities. It's not that hard actually, just needs dedication. The diversion attack should be real, By using smoke, off map artillery etc etc.
Then, just when the diversion is taking place, 2 other players should flank the enemy and move in with their army. Another players stays back for support, and as reserve.

I know it sounds too militaristic, but it works, specially versus stupid A-move Blobbers. And also, it's very map dependent.

You also probably know this already, but assign numbers to your squads, and send in a couple of them as a "probing attack", to probe for weaknesses.

That's pretty much what I have to say, but the balance does have major influence.

Maybe have two players go M3s to get advantage early game, then swarm the field with T-34, mines and demos, then call in? That's the only solid way i can think of .

Maybe have two players go M3s to get advantage early game, then swarm the field with T-34, mines and demos, then call in? That's the only solid way i can think of
get #rekt by Puma/FlakHT/Luchs
.

/fixed4u