Heavy artillery vs. Tanks

So I've been thinking recently about Heavy artillery and why they aren't used more. They are all pretty good vs infantry blobs and and defensive emplacements and what not, but these aren't usually the biggest threats in the late game when these units are available. Tanks are!

The only heavy artillery that actually seems to be commonly used right now is the B4, and I believe the primary reason for this is because while not only dangerous to infantry, and emplacements, they are able to do significant damage to tanks.

The ML-20, priest, and lefh 18 on the other hand are almost insignificant threats to armor. Obviously this has a lot to do with most armor being mobile and despite having higher damage potential then the B-4 all the other heavy artillery have scatter and do that damage over a longer time. This means that unless your opponent is a complete idiot, you will probably only hit them once, twice if you get lucky. This means that even well aimed barrages will do around 200 damage, 400 damage if lucky. They also will not be firing for a long time after.

Many team games players have probably incountered the infamous tiger/KT and Elephant/JT combos, which are usually nearly impossible to deal with. Theoretically these slow heavy beast should be vulnerable to artillery. But in their current state you would be hard pressed to do any significant amount of damage to them. Opening up late game options, especially a counter to Heavies that the allies can rely on would greatly help the state of the late game.

What I think could be done is to give these heavy artillery units(minus the B4) a 25-50% damage modifier vs tanks so that even a few hits would do a good amount of damage to tanks if they manage to actually hit them. This would allow them to actually be a significant threat to armor without making them too strong against other elements of the game.

On a slightly different note, I also believe making artillery unbuildable (or disabling their abilities in the case of the priest) inside of base sectors would allow the devs to better buff artillery in general, without having to worry about such stron weapons being unherassable.

So when you are being baseraped, you can't kill the enemies because... what?

Buffing at least some of the artillery in needed though

ML20 was able to make "escape way out" in side of a turret of KT. And I mean it. Perfect penetration. Of course it was not front armor but arty is not shooting front, rather top.
Here ml or le arę useless against tanks.

So when you are being baseraped, you can't kill the enemies because... what?

Buffing at least some of the artillery in needed though

I would rather artillery being stronger throughout the game then it being crappy inside my base where it's safe. Besides if you are getting baseraped odds are you already lost. As long as it's buildable inside the base Relic won't actually make it strong because it's too hard for the enemy to counter. I realize this, and know that if artillery is ever going to be strong enough to have a significant impact on the game it's going to need appropriate counter play.

ML20 was able to make "escape way out" in side of a turret of KT. And I mean it. Perfect penetration. Of course it was not front armor but arty is not shooting front, rather top.
Here ml or le arę useless against tanks.

Artillery had the highest amount of kills in the entire war, and was effective against both tanks and artillery alike. The fact that it's relegated to such niche use in COH2 is criminal.

Besides if you are getting baseraped odds are you already lost.

I'm not a compstomper, but they would disagree with you

As long as it's buildable inside the base Relic won't actually make it strong because it's too hard for the enemy to counter. I realize this, and know that if artillery is ever going to be strong enough to have a significant impact on the game it's going to need appropriate counter play.

Relic won't make it strong anyway, and even if they did, adding penetration to ML20 would surely make soviets OP as hell, T34/85's and IS2's doctrines would be forever forgotten, as ML20 would be the king of battlefield, crushing everything on its path.

Right?

Right?

I think the current howies can have good uses, but they dont fit in with what people are building in the meta.

Werh don't tend to build a lot of bunkers, trenches and tank traps, where the ML20 would shine.

The lefh 18 is probably best used to protect German defensive positions, and hence why German indirect fire units have counter barrage ability.


Generally most people just keep a more mobile force, so howies not ideal counter.

I'd happily see Artillery's range decreased by a decent amount if it could do a significant amount of damage to heavy tanks. Currently they do about as much damage as an AT gun, yet are inaccurate, can't track tanks and have a long cool down.

I wish there were some way of giving them a bonus vs heavy tanks but not vs medium tanks, as the damage to them is fine currently. Any higher and stugs and the like would be destroyed by one shell which wouldn't be fair.

I'd happily see Artillery's range decreased by a decent amount if it could do a significant amount of damage to heavy tanks. Currently they do about as much damage as an AT gun, yet are inaccurate, can't track tanks and have a long cool down.

I wish there were some way of giving them a bonus vs heavy tanks but not vs medium tanks, as the damage to them is fine currently. Any higher and stugs and the like would be destroyed by one shell which wouldn't be fair.

Mediums should still be fine. They are fast enough that they can usually get out of the effected zone before even the second shell lands, and really shouldn't be in one place long enough to get hit by it at all.

I'm not a compstomper, but they would disagree with you


Relic won't make it strong anyway, and even if they did, adding penetration to ML20 would surely make soviets OP as hell, T34/85's and IS2's doctrines would be forever forgotten, as ML20 would be the king of battlefield, crushing everything on its path.

Right?

Right?

Penetration? It already has high penetration if it can hit anything.

And I'm guessing the second part is sarcasm. I don't think anything will ever stop players from calling in heavy tanks and the like. Let alone a inconsistent, vulnarable, and easily avoidable barrage unit, even if it's can actually hurt armor. It's not like soviets can use both 85s and tigers and the ML-20 anyway.

I think the current howies can have good uses, but they dont fit in with what people are building in the meta.

Werh don't tend to build a lot of bunkers, trenches and tank traps, where the ML20 would shine.

The lefh 18 is probably best used to protect German defensive positions, and hence why German indirect fire units have counter barrage ability.


Generally most people just keep a more mobile force, so howies not ideal counter.

Artillery should be effective against anything slow or immobile. I wouldn't really call heavies a "mobile force" yet artillery struggles against them anyway.

The reason the meta exists is because there is not enough risk and counters that exist against it. I know when I play allies despite the full knowledge my opponent is probably going to go for tigers and super TDs, there really isn't much I can do to prepare for it. That's why I think opening up another Heavy counter would be good for the game.

Penetration? It already has high penetration if it can hit anything.

And I'm guessing the second part is sarcasm. I don't think anything will ever stop players from calling in heavy tanks and the like. Let alone a inconsistent, vulnarable, and easily avoidable barrage unit, even if it's can actually hurt armor. It's not like soviets can use both 85s and tigers and the ML-20 anyway.

Yes it was quite a sarcasm. Also artillery primary target is infantry, defences, etc so I would rather recommend buff to... well, ML20 is already good at punishing OKW blobbers when they hit panic retreat button, but LeFH definitely needs love. It even has an achievement for destroying vehicles with it

Yes it was quite a sarcasm. Also artillery primary target is infantry, defences, etc so I would rather recommend buff to... well, ML20 is already good at punishing OKW blobbers when they hit panic retreat button, but LeFH definitely needs love. It even has an achievement for destroying vehicles with it

I wouldn't really say the lefh is all that bad stat wise. It's just that neither US or USSR really have any defensive builds really to make use against. So there really isn't a reason to ever build it. But imagine if it could hurt IS-2s and ISUs. I think it might actually get some use.

Mediums should still be fine. They are fast enough that they can usually get out of the effected zone before even the second shell lands, and really shouldn't be in one place long enough to get hit by it at all.

It's more the one rng shot annihilating your veteran medium tank that you've taken care of all game that really concerns me here.

Maybe if they had a higher chance to crew shock tanks. That would help them get hit more often.


The way to use Lefh isnt to think of demolishing their forces, rather build a strong defensive position of bunkers, paks, stugs, maybe a pak43 if you use combined ops. I.e. Bait the opponent into investing in indirect fire, then use your howie to smash the indirect fire.

I wouldn't really say the lefh is all that bad stat wise. It's just that neither US or USSR really have any defensive builds really to make use against. So there really isn't a reason to ever build it. But imagine if it could hurt IS-2s and ISUs. I think it might actually get some use.

From my experience LeFH has some issues, the biggest is of course accuracy which is a nightmare. There was more shells that hit outside the targeting circle than number of stars in the sky. It's reload time is horrid, and number of shells fired is quite small. This is of course a consequence of previous game states, when LeFH was shooting all the time, and is the smallest issue.

There is also a role for LeFH, which I experienced in one of my 4v4 achievement-fests. Both ML20 and LeFH vet very fast, so when a soviet goes heavy T2, the counterbarrage is quite useful indeed

There is still ingame text describing LeFH. Something about it being not as destructive as Soviet arty, but having a good rate of fire. What a shame it won't return to that state

Maybe if they had a higher chance to crew shock tanks. That would help them get hit more often.

That's definitely another way to go about it. Though players usually grow aggravated when control is taken away from them. Still should be considered though.

It's more the one rng shot annihilating your veteran medium tank that you've taken care of all game that really concerns me here.

I don't think that they should do so much damage as to kill a full health medium. Maybe a half health one though. Besides, the B4 does that now anyway.

See this exit? Well it's not exit, it's 152mm AP shell that went through turret. Not just destroyed side of the turret but went on the other side.

King Tiger vs 152mm AP.

It will be cool to implement top armor mechanic, artillery can just take it from there.