Strategy as allies

Alexzandvar, you seem to have a knack for selecting an argument, from all the other arguments you could have, that is so indefensible it's hilarious.

count me into the sherman fan club simply for infantry crush. i've had many hero sherman's win me games under their treads, it's cathartic, getting 14+ kills in one go when blobs roll up. too often do i see teammates get frustrated by the ai power of shermans or t34's, hoping for a lucky HE shell to maybe hit and then reversing away from 17 missiles.

How do you crush infantry ? the same way as in COH 1 ?

Well, this thread has no USF strats yet, so i'll toss in one I have been messing with a lot recently.

This is a mechanized company build that has worked very well in 2vs2.

Last Edited 3/09/2015 @ 4:41 PM PST

The idea of this build is to take advantage of the refit option in mechanized, and use it to keep constant pressure on your enemies. This build is most effective against double OKW, but has merits vs. mixed ostheer and double ostheer.

Early Game:
Rifle
Rifle
WC-51
Rifle

The idea of the early game start is to take advantage of your mobility to overwhelm your enemy, and use the WC-51's mobility on large maps to flank and cut off the enemy. If you see volks in green cover, use 2 rifles to engage from range, while your WC51 flanks to the side and drops off your third squad to deal heavy damage to the flanked position. The WC51 hardcounters the kubelwagon and gives very good supplemental damage vs. sturmpioneers. Remember that it doesn't have very good armor or HP, so you must always be paying attention to it.

If you find a lul in the action, take your WC-51 deep and try to find your opponents truck building. If you destroy it, you will have more or less won the game.

Mid game:
LT
M20 (if large map)
AA HT
BARS
Major

Next, you must take advantage of your early game fuel presence to push even deeper into enemy territory and secure your rear. Refit your Jeep as soon as you either see a raketen or as soon as your LT comes out.

On maps such as Vaux Farmland and Minsk Pocket, build and use an M20 (without skirts, they will be a waste of money) to lay 1-2 AT mines on roads and flanking positions. As soon as you are done with the mines, replace the M20 crew with your RE squad, and refit the M20 to return your MP and fuel.

Rush out the AA HT, and use it to supplement your riflemen as an effective field force. Move your riflemen out in front of your AA HT and push back the enemy with the combination of suppression from the HT and CQC damage from your rifle squads. Upgrade bars after your AA HT, and equip your rifle squads with one each, then 2 each (don't forget your LT). Build a Major.

Build Fuel caches as soon as you start floating MP from taking reduced losses.

Late Game:
Sherman
Sherman
Jackson
Sherman
Sherman
...

Typically, your late game will depend on what you prefer as your USF lategame armor composition. I prefer a sherman-heavy build with 1 jackson as support. Use the AA HT until you are about 40 fuel away from a sherman. Replace the crew inside with an RE squad, and refit it. As soon as the sherman enters the battlefield, replace the sherman crew with your AA HT crew.

Use the HE rounds on the sherman to support your infantry as they push into enemy territory. Late game should rely on your armor to win battles and wipe as many squads as possible while your Jackson punishes the tiger that will come out at 11CP.

You should have at least 1 sherman + 1 Jackson by the time the Tiger arrives. Use AP round shermans and flank the tiger if he overextends. Try baiting him over your defensive mines if you have any.

Remember, if you lose your jackson when you don't have enough fuel for another, use withdraw and refit on your most damaged sherman (with your worst crew) to quickly fund the production of another jackson. Crew the new jackson with you best sherman crew so that you have access to AP rounds.

Crews are important, if you have a highly vetted sherman crippled during an assault, get the crew out and get them away from the frontlines so that they can boost the vet of one of your other vehicles. Finish the crippled vehicle with your jackson, or just secure it and bring the crew back up after winning the battle.

One last tip, if you find yourself floating fuel late game, consider teching to a captain to use the supervise function in order to pump out as many tanks as you can. You may find it useful to take him into combat and get him to lose most of his models so that he doesnt become a drain on your popcap.

Doctrine:
The strategy I have outlined makes use of the first two abilities, and has the other 3 as supplemental options.

Use the recon overflight to sscout out enemy positions prior to your main push.

Use the mechanized arty + 2-3 rounds from a sherman to destroy the OKW base buildings.

The M3 halftrack can be useful for the ass-engie mines and demos. Remember that getting the M3 is going to slow down your teching and your building of fuel caches. If you decide to get one, you may want to refit it quickly after 1-2 pushs with it as a soft retreat point. I would recommend getting it late game, disembarking the ass engies, and refitting it immediatly. It won't be efficient, but it may be life saving.

Support

The best support for this doctrine would be a soviet player who goes for a con heavy start into t2+t3 and a t34 into callins. The T34 will be useful in supplementing your own armor (and ram will punish any overextended panthers/tigers), as well as keeping the pressure on the enemy

nice strat. I am still trying to find a way to use the m10 wolverine and his commander, do you have one with him ?

Lately I'm all about the priest in big team games. I go 2xBAR rifles 2xLMG rifles Craptain 57mm 2xM36 and 2xPriests.

I've done exceptionally well with the priests. They aren't as good as b4s but way harder to counter. It can chew up elefant/jagdtiger too. I keep some at lingering around the priests to keep them safe since I have no m20 mines. Perhaps with a SU t2 mate you can go Lt. I almost never have both priests firing at once. It works well against ostheer since they aren't mobile and when shelling okw medic truck it's easy to rack up 15 kills with one barrage.

I've even fended off attacks by baiting a blob to stand still just long enough. Two shells will screw any blob. It's just a matter of anticipating their movement and knowing the time it will take shells to land.

nice strat. I am still trying to find a way to use the m10 wolverine and his commander, do you have one with him ?

I don't have a real strat that I have been using for the armor commander, but the way most people use it is to go LT + CPT -> callins. That being said, I don't really like relying on bulldozers and m10s late game.

For your early game, I would go:

rifle
ass engie
rifle
rifle

LT

Major

Regular armor

Late game, I would rely on jacksons and regular shermans/scotts because they seem to be a lot better at their respective roles. I would maybe build 1 sherman bulldozer to act as a meat shield, but don't rely o them for AI.

Assault engies are the main reason to use this doctrine. They give USF a flamethrower, which is amazingly useful on maps like semoisky to burn enemies out of buildings, and give USF a supplemental force of CQC DPS. The main strength of ass engies is their ability to plant demos, which are a must vs. OKW super blobs. Place them near points an on roads to maximize their killing potential. Ass engies also come with USF light AT mines. Place them in clusters of 4 to have a good chance of immobolizing enemy armor. This way, you have your flank covered from panther rushes, and don't have to build an M20 for mining. Ass engies don't scale very well late game, but have the vet 1 "repair critical" bility that USF vehicle crews have, so you can use them to help your crews with repairs in battle. Ass engies at vet 3 repair much faster than vehicle crews, and I am pretty sure they don't take as much damage as usual at vet 3 when attacked while repairing.

Vehicle crew Thompsons is one of the worst upgrades in the game, but they can be useful if you havea spare vehicle crew that you saved from dieing in their vehicle and you happen to be floating munitions. The thompsons make vehicle crews have as much DPS as paras with thompsons, they just aren't as survivable. Use them to flank enemies and ambush hostiles coming around corners.


The bulldozer is a good support unit, but it should not be the bulk of your armor. The base M4A3 sherman is more versatile, and seems to be better in the anti infantry role. The main advantage of the bulldozer is its greater armor, so use it to soak damage for your jacksons/ scotts/ shermans. It also has an interesting ability to create tank-trap like green cover on the battlefield. In theory, it would be good for setting up a defense and forcing enemy armor into mines, but I have not used them myself so I cannot comment on their usefulness.

The M10 is not a very good AT unit. It is good in groups of two vs. ostheer tier 3 (p4s, stugs, flackpanzer), but almost useless vs. anything heavier. If you have the micro, take advantage of its speed to crush enemy infantry, which it is amazing at.

The 220mm Artillery is great for RNG squad wipes when you attack an OKW built in position with it. If you are lucky, it could wipe a blob. If you are unlucky, you just blew all those munitions. Use it on clustered enemy positions like the basic OKW build in strategy on semoisky for best effect. Still better than major arty.

How do you crush infantry ? the same way as in COH 1 ?

acceleration and pathing aside, i feel it's fairly similar. i've had the most success driving in an L, or sort of a U.


Sherman
|
|
|
\ Blob-^

The goal should be to push the entire blob to the inside of the Sherman, too early and you'll push them to the outside and you'll have to do an S sort of manoeuvre and you'll lose your speed and get shreked. too late, you'll be forced to do a sort of U shape and miss, in between/at the wrong angle you'll split the squads in half, some will dart to the left, vice versa, and you'll be partially successful. i find the best way is to charge at a slight angle, maybe 30* and then when the squad darts to one direction, be relentless and go full hand down, and of course give yourself enough room to fully accelerate.

i'm a fan of give the T34 ram the ability to target infantry, blob solved. :3

I'm definitely in the pro sherman camp, scotts are good vs ost though for attacking paks.

Had a play around with comm_ash's strategy, its good fun. best thing is you actually get to use a unit early game that's not rifles.

Heavy mortars dont take out OKW trucks as easilly as described above

Heavy mortars dont take out OKW trucks as easilly as described above

they don t take them out fast. But you don´t bleed MP by attacking them and a constant shelling schould normally prevent any repair.

So I think it´s a pretty safe way to remove an OKW Truck.

I have to try with maxims and Zis though, maybe it´s working better.

You know you can move mortars before the stuka barrage hit's right?

Lol. You don't have that much time between the sound of the barrage and impact, and getting support weapons away takes time. You're not seriously telling me you're having problems with getting your stuka to hit stuff right?

Heavy mortars dont take out OKW trucks as easilly as described above

We're sorry, but the atomic bomb wasn't introduced in the game yet so that it would be easier for you. But maybe someone will create a mode were OKW Hq buildings can be destroyed by a few conscript shots so finally things would be balanced for you.

10-11min Sherman all day long.

First two Shermans can be devastating against OKW.
If I feel I can win around 20min I make third Sherman.

Great AI, good AT + AT gun support.

If I pushed back my enemy, yet still he is in game, then it's time to switch tactic.
Shermans become useless vs Jadgpanzers or Panthers.
Now it's the time to keep them alive unitl you have enough fuel for different units.
Most deadly part agasint OKW is about to begin.

Obers, vetted Volks + Panther or Jadgpanzer + Schwerer in the middle of the map + Pak43 - just garden me (Faymonville with OKW at south spawn with fortification is my nightmare).

Now it's the time for two Scotts. Thery are doing great job agasint Pak or Trucks but one Panther rush and they are gone so it's damn hard to use them.
You need to lay down AT mines in crucial points so Panther won't get them, but again it's huge micro... 2 Scotts, 3 Rifles (or 2 Paras), 2 Jacksons, maybe 1 Sherman which stayed alive.
All units damn fragile, few seconds and they are gone but when coordinated well enough, such comb might be amazing but again... You can shoot with Scotts, flank with Jacksons, reverse with Scotts, lay mine and push with infantry at once. Add pathing issues which are deadly for USF and Scotts will vanish is a blink of an eye.

10-11min Sherman all day long.

First two Shermans can be devastating against OKW.
If I feel I can win around 20min I make third Sherman.

Great AI, good AT + AT gun support.

If I pushed back my enemy, yet still he is in game, then it's time to switch tactic.
Shermans become useless vs Jadgpanzers or Panthers.
Now it's the time to keep them alive unitl you have enough fuel for different units.
Most deadly part agasint OKW is about to begin.

Obers, vetted Volks + Panther or Jadgpanzer + Schwerer in the middle of the map + Pak43 - just garden me (Faymonville with OKW at south spawn with fortification is my nightmare).

Now it's the time for two Scotts. Thery are doing great job agasint Pak or Trucks but one Panther rush and they are gone so it's damn hard to use them.
You need to lay down AT mines in crucial points so Panther won't get them, but again it's huge micro... 2 Scotts, 3 Rifles (or 2 Paras), 2 Jacksons, maybe 1 Sherman which stayed alive.
All units damn fragile, few seconds and they are gone but when coordinated well enough, such comb might be amazing but again... You can shoot with Scotts, flank with Jacksons, reverse with Scotts, lay mine and push with infantry at once. Add pathing issues which are deadly for USF and Scotts will vanish is a blink of an eye.

A viable strategy I don't see many people do is back tech to captain (if they didn't go Airborne) to get out a howie and 2 AT guns. This hard counters jagdpanzer and makes a panther have a harder time getting anything doe. If you are mechanized, you can even send back a sherman to do so.

A viable strategy I don't see many people do is back tech to captain (if they didn't go Airborne) to get out a howie and 2 AT guns. This hard counters jagdpanzer and makes a panther have a harder time getting anything doe. If you are mechanized, you can even send back a sherman to do so.

I think you misunderstood me. Im not backteching. If Im going for Lt, Airborne is must-have cause of AT gun so no backteching, just dropping AT Guns.

Mechanized... I love this commander. Take AA or Stuart and when the job is done, replace with Sherman or Jackson.
Against OKW you won't even notice lack or Paras or LMGs since Obers will melt everything.
And the dodge...Amazing to hunt down converting truck in the first 2-4min.
It can also damage really hard trucks or vehicles with barrage.

But then I have to go for Cpt to get AT guns, or Lt but upgrade bazookas and equip 2 RE squads with them.

Mechanized is the worst USF commander in the game next to armor. Every time I play against someone who goes mechanized I laugh as my Ostheer friend fausts him.

Or just have my sturms kill his WC51 truck lmao

Mechanized is the worst USF commander in the game next to armor. Every time I play against someone who goes mechanized I laugh as my Ostheer friend fausts him.

Or just have my sturms kill his WC51 truck lmao

Dodge is a good counter for Kubel spam, flanking MGs and Mortars.

Mechanized is the worst USF commander in the game next to armor. Every time I play against someone who goes mechanized I laugh as my Ostheer friend fausts him.

Or just have my sturms kill his WC51 truck lmao

If Strums get Dodge it's because bad micro of USF player.

Mechanized is amazing. 2 weeks ago I was so kind to point you one by one why it is quite good sometimes.

Dodge is good counter for Kubel spam, flanking MGs and Mortars.

Kubel spam, that's a good one. And most of the time people won't live a single MG42 squad sitting by itself, and if you get caught in the arc of the MG42 your WC51 truck is dead because it's so fragile.

Recommending Mechanized as a commander is idiocy on par with recommending Infantry Doctrine for Ostheer or Elite Armored for OKW.

If Strums get Dodge it's because bad micro of USF player.

Mechanized is amazing. 2 weeks ago I was so kind to point you one by one why it is quite good sometimes.

~sometimes~, yeah the fact it has 1 good ability in the return for resources, which is pointless anyway since you shouldn't even be building stuarts to recall.

Every other USF commander other than Armored is better, all mechanized does is serve as a noob trap to people who legit actually like WC51 trucks are on par with Scout Cars or that unironically think the USF AA HT or the M20 is useless past the early game.

~sometimes~, yeah the fact it has 1 good ability in the return for resources, which is pointless anyway since you shouldn't even be building stuarts to recall.

Every other USF commander other than Armored is better, all mechanized does is serve as a noob trap to people who legit actually like WC51 trucks are on par with Scout Cars or that unironically think the USF AA HT or the M20 is useless past the early game.

If you want to call me a noob and laugh at my tactics, how about you fight me. I'll use mechanized, you can do whatever the hell you want. If you are just going to call people noobs without understanding the playstyle of the faction in question, then you may as well just head on over to the official forum, where you will be happy amongst your kind.

Have a nice day.