Rework Aircraft & AA Mechanic

Problem:
I have a big problem with how aircraft abilities and anti aircraft mechanics work in this game. Basically, the whole mechanic is very bare bone and not very well fleshed out. The single pass aircraft abilities are the biggest offender, although I am not stating whether they are OP or not at this moment. But I think it is also a big bullshit that P47s always gets to fire their first volley no matter how many AA units are on the field.

My Solution:
I think all AA vehicles/buildable OKW flak should have an 'area of influence'. This includes Sov's quad, M15 AAHT, Ostwind, 222(to some extent), OKW AAHT and OKW buildable flak emplacement, and not pintle mounted guns, OKW base flaks and OKW tier 4. And when the plane is called in, if the plane's area of influence is overlapping with the AA's area of influence, i think the plane should derp. i.e. P47s maybe shoot 2 rockets each instead of 6 each. This would apply to all airplane abilities. And the plane has a HP and when the HP gets low enough, the plane bails out(fly away) and the players are notified. No more stupid kamikazes, too.

My Logic:
Basically, I am trying to apply the same mechanic between tanks and anti tank units. lets say there is a P4 and SU85. If P4 chooses to be active in the area where SU85 is, P4's capabilities would be severly limited. However in the area where there are less ATs, P4 is going to do much better.

I see what ur saying...

but

If im paying 240muni for an ability

it better fucking do something

Shooting at aircraft is just a way for my flacktracks and ostwinds to get free experience. I don't want any reliable way for simply owning a unit to suddenly start affecting the way that global abilities work so long as they're attached to planes. Incendiary bombing run vs incendiary artillery, for example; why should one be worse because of the availability of AA?

Especially when some AA comes on units vastly more useful than others.

just fix usf p47 rocketskill and everything is fine. thx.

Realistically, loitering area of effect stuff should never have been part of the game, single pass stuff that can't be shot down would be 1000x easier to balance. Stuff would behave more consistently, there would be no RNG aircrashes etc, and OKW's tech structure wouldn't hard counter recon runs and shit. I'm so sick of having my runs end ludicrously prematurely just because, surprise, the OKW players built Schwer HQs.

well, one possibility would be to make all loiter abilities multiple passes. that way you can't shut down all passes by shooting the first plane. i see that creating a huge number of other problems though, each requiring effort to fix...

It was my understanding from an interview with the developers (pretty sure it's this one: [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO4R6TOFxlY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO4R6TOFxlY) that anti-air would be a major part of WFA...Everything should have an anti-air mode by default, but that turns into a kind of lame "click faster" thing, where the guy who hotkeys and activates it faster wins every time.

I think all strafes should have vCOH style targeting really. Remember those epic airborne bombing runs? Area of effect is too easy. Can keep the bombs that target one spot, they all have smoke.

Really they should also bring the V1 back. I wish they would have just not tried to be so original and just keep mechanics that worked fine in vCOH...

I was thinking hard about the Ostheer CAS commander which I have a huge problem with and expanded my view onto P47 and all other air abilities. Then I came to conclusion how primitive and just braindead the whole Air v. AA mechanics was.

but apparently my sentiment does not resonate.

just fix usf p47 rocketskill and everything is fine. thx.

JU87 Close Air Support ability is way more powerful. Not to offend, but it just shows when people see a problem, they don't delve in much deeper, rather they just scratch the surface. this is NOT a criticism against you because you don't agree with me.

Shooting at aircraft is just a way for my flacktracks and ostwinds to get free experience. I don't want any reliable way for simply owning a unit to suddenly start affecting the way that global abilities work so long as they're attached to planes. Incendiary bombing run vs incendiary artillery, for example; why should one be worse because of the availability of AA?

Especially when some AA comes on units vastly more useful than others.

agree. that is why there is 'area of influence'. if the plane is smartly called in an area where there is no AA, it should do work. Thosedeafmutes's point about all plane abilities being a single pass can help with this. of course, price should be adjusted.

i also see your point about incendiary arty v.incendiary plane. the way i see it, plane abilities are generally way more potent. so i think there should be a soft counter which is more than just dodging which is impossible for some aircraft abilities.

JU87 Close Air Support ability is way more powerful. Not to offend, but it just shows when people see a problem, they don't delve in much deeper, rather they just scratch the surface. this is NOT a criticism against you because you don't agree with me.

JU87 isn't as useful versus good players who move their armor out of the target zone, and occasionally the JU87 will just randomly target infantry for ~reasons~

P47's will just lock onto your tank and follow you around the map.

agree. that is why there is 'area of influence'. if the plane is smartly called in an area where there is no AA, it should do work. Thosedeafmutes's point about all plane abilities being a single pass can help with this. of course, price should be adjusted

AoI has literally no impact on the fact that certain abilities will be gimped by the presence of certain army builds whilst others are not.

Again. Incendiary arty vs. incendiary bombing run. One will get suddenly worse whilst the other will remain unchanged, simply because it is tied to a plane.

Offmap economy isn't something you can decide needs screwing with with the arbitrary constraint of 'is it plane related'. Either it affects them all, or it affects none, anything else will unjustly punish some commanders retroactively simply because their ability had a plane model involved in its execution.

The only exception I would consider is loitering planes, which were a bad idea to begin with and need every beat with a stick possible.

JU87 isn't as useful versus good players who move their armor out of the target zone, and occasionally the JU87 will just randomly target infantry for ~reasons~

P47's will just lock onto your tank and follow you around the map.

Bias re-confirmed again.

Bias re-confirmed again.

I would rather use P47's which will follow a tank and kill it than an ability which occasionally will just ignore tanks and attack a maxim in a building.

How is it bias to point out that CaS isn't as good as P47's? Both are excellent abilities, but CaS like's to derp itself more.

I would rather use P47's which will follow a tank and kill it than an ability which occasionally will just ignore tanks and attack a maxim in a building.

How is it bias to point out that CaS isn't as good as P47's? Both are excellent abilities, but CaS like's to derp itself more.

P47 also has a longer time to arrival, less damage per pass, much larger spread on the rockets/shots leading to additional misses and a slower firing animation making missing much easier.

Always focusing on the negatives of the axis and the positives of the allies in comparisons.

Bias.

P47 also has a longer time to arrival, less damage per pass, much larger spread on the rockets/shots leading to additional misses and a slower firing animation making missing much easier.

Always focusing on the negatives of the axis and the positives of the allies in comparisons.

Bias.

A JU87 isn't doing any damage to a tank if it isn't shooting at it, while a P47 will actually hunt a tank down and try and slay it.

I sure do love spending over 200 munitions so my plane can shoot at con squads instead of the tank sitting right next to the con squad

i get your point Brachiaraidos. I just want air v. aa to be more like tank v. at.

except the former mechanic has to be much simpler due to you not actually having control of the plane and the fact that you cant manually target the plane.

and your other points are also valid in terms of the state of the game now. bascially, i wanted a huge overhaul (which i did not explain fully at all) of the mechanic in which i think a lot of your concerns/criticism won't be a problem anymore.

i just wanted to test the water if ppl feel the same. because if no one cares, the complete overhaul won't be even worth talking about. and that seems to be the case.

If we are talking about AA mechanic, I would love to see some kinf of Air commander with, let's say, 150muni loaded fighter which would shoot down any plane that comes in.

It would be risky, cause you never know if it'll be just a Recon or maybe AT strike or maybe your enemy won't use any plane, but Id love to see something like that.

If we are talking about AA mechanic, I would love to see some kinf of Air commander with, let's say, 150muni loaded fighter which would shoot down any plane that comes in.

It would be risky, cause you never know if it'll be just a Recon or maybe AT strike or maybe your enemy won't use any plane, but Id love to see something like that.

An allied commander that focus's on air superiority would be really fun, be it for Americans or Soviets.

JU87 Close Air Support ability is way more powerful. Not to offend, but it just shows when people see a problem, they don't delve in much deeper, rather they just scratch the surface. this is NOT a criticism against you because you don't agree with me.

Im sorry but its not? CAS anti tank ability is a skillshot antitank bombstrike callin where a plane flyes by once and unload its payload. Very easy to dodge and it is only one flyby whereas P47 can kill a full health Tiger tank even if it retreats to its base which is just silly. There is no reason P47 should continue to be in effect as long as it is AND track targets way from the target site.

Have you even played the commander yourself? Because CAS does not loiter around.

Im sorry but its not? CAS anti tank ability is a skillshot antitank bombstrike callin where a plane flyes by once and unload its payload. Very easy to dodge and it is only one flyby whereas P47 can kill a full health Tiger tank even if it retreats to its base which is just silly. There is no reason P47 should continue to be in effect as long as it is AND track targets way from the target site.

Have you even played the commander yourself? Because CAS does not loiter around.

I get the feel that you are offended and rightfully so. Sorry I wasn't clear, I should've said "Stuka Close Air Support" because that is the loitering one and "Stuka JU87 Close Air Support" is the single pass one.

And yes, I do have experiences with both commanders. Actually, I am probably the only few actively keep using ALL the commanders in the game except the Dodge USF one. Because I have all of them and I play 3v3 AT most at the moment and many times it is smashing noobs, so I have more freedom when it comes to trying things.

Skillshot? is there some well known irony attached to this vocabulary that i do not know about? You basically click where you want the payload to be. 30% of it connects, one 640hp tank gone. The one thing remotely skill about it is using it when the enemy is distracted, usually in the heat of battle.

a rework of air/AA would be nice but it's just one more thing to add to the middle relic's list that will never happen and i'm war weary.