Sturm pioneers are overpriced

Yep, but they shoot a TONS of less expensive units, and faster than most of them, and since the start of the game.

Can't say the same for RE or CE for instance.

It doesn't matter if it's tons, because the same formula still applies. Yeah it's not impossible, but OKW veterancy being wonked due to unit pricing is a fairly well understood phenomenon.

Sturms are Panzergrenadiers that don't suck, they're great.

Yep, but they shoot a TONS of less expensive units, and faster than most of them, and since the start of the game.

Can't say the same for RE or CE for instance.

Interesting, I have only like 5% of game having a sturmpio getting pass vet 3 without dead. Vet 2 is usual and Never reached Vet 4.

It doesn't matter if it's tons, because the same formula still applies. Yeah it's not impossible, but OKW veterancy being wonked due to unit pricing is a fairly well understood phenomenon.

Shooting less expensive units does not make the exp they get suddenly vanish. Units have fixed XP values based on their cost. Just shoot more, and you vet up just fine.

Paratroopers are expensive, they vet up just fine. Shock troops are expensive, they also vet up just fine. And importantly, sturmpios are available and fighting from second 0 of the game, so they have a lot of time to accrue the needed exp to get that veterancy to make them horrifyingly damaging.

It's not like Sturmpios are a KV-8 with enormous fuel and manpower costs shooting nothing but infantry. They're not even the most expensive infantry. Obers cost more, and guess what? They vet up fine too.

vet 3 sturms beat my vet 3 paras

multiple times in one game

Shooting less expensive units does not make the exp they get suddenly vanish. Units have fixed XP values based on their cost. Just shoot more, and you vet up just fine.

Paratroopers are expensive, they vet up just fine. Shock troops are expensive, they also vet up just fine. And importantly, sturmpios are available and fighting from second 0 of the game, so they have a lot of time to accrue the needed exp to get that veterancy to make them horrifyingly damaging.

It's not like Sturmpios are a KV-8 with enormous fuel and manpower costs shooting nothing but infantry. They're not even the most expensive infantry. Obers cost more, and guess what? They vet up fine too.

Individual models in allied squads reward you with less veterancy from killing them because 240/6 results in a lesser individual model value than 240/4.

So you have Para's and Shocks shooting and killing more expensive individual models, while you have more expensive individual models shooting and killing less expensive models.

Obers and whatnot vet up slowly by design, as they have some bretty good vet bonsus's, Volks vet up to fast. Sturms vet up slow, but are harder to keep alive than Obers.

overall it's not really that much of an issue, just a tad bit silly how poorly implemented the Vet system for OKW was.

vet 3 sturms beat my vet 3 paras

multiple times in one game

It is obviously the fault of the player.

Sturmpios are the hardest okw infantry to vet up and reach vet 5 at all. I can count the games I had with my Sturmpios reaching vet 5 on my fingers and most were because of dropped weapons, not because sturmpios posses late game lethality.

They are usually fighting till mid game and then transits into a purely support unit for mines & repairs.

Hard to vet them? God... With such DPS is easy to vet them..

I remember we got into the conclusion that you missmicro and you had a bit of unfavourable RNG on that engagement.

Next time: attack move instead of engaging SP at close range.

it isnt that hard to get them to vet 2 or 3. it is hard for them to get to like vet 4 or 5 in my experience. isnt that how it's supposed to be?

i thought getting vet 3 on vcoh2 units were too easy until i saw how easy it is to vet5 volks and obers.

Sturm Pios are perfectly priced for a starter unit, please spare the drama of 4 man squad wipes.

I remember we got into the conclusion that you missmicro and you had a bit of unfavourable RNG on that engagement.

Next time: attack move instead of engaging SP at close range.

RNG, yes but Paras with lmgs have higher dps than 3 models of SP.
I think its about insane vet. How engi squad can have a way better combat vet bonuses than true combat unit?

Sturm Pios are perfectly priced for a starter unit, please spare the drama of 4 man squad wipes.

It vastly disproportionally affects one side of the game.

RNG, yes but Paras with lmgs have higher dps than 3 models of SP.
I think its about insane vet. How engi squad can have a way better combat vet bonuses than true combat unit?

Sturm pio's are not engineers.

Have you ever watched a shock squad try to advance through open ground through a sturmpio field of fire? It's a lot more damaging than you'd expect.

Seriously, though. Volks and their shrecks are a necessity, but that does not mean sturmpios aren't fantastic. Yes, they start to become less prominent as the game goes on, but they never stop being a massive threat. Flanking, building clearing, surprise garrisons, park them on retreat paths. Their DPS against is enormous and that's not something that changes.

I honestly love them. Yes, you can't use them as a battering ram like you would shock troops, but they never stop being a threat.

Not nerf worthy, just really really good at what they do.

I mostly agree, but then again, there are a number of reasons why you will virtually never see a decent player build dual pios. They are a must have support/utility unit if only for the sweeper, especially when facing Soviets, but in terms of attrition/cost effectiveness they cannot be used en masse.
As a combat unit, Sturms and their high dps can have a serious impact in conjunction with the ever popular (if you will forgive my sarcasm) early aggressive Kübel/Truck push. Their vulnerability does not matter so much if their opponents cannot shoot back because they are pinned by the Kübel or pushed by the truck...

Someone siad they don't scale well?
- -46% received accuracy
- +60% accuracy

How bad is that?

Let's compare them to Paras, pure fighting unit.

- -29% received accuracy
- +25% accuracy.


3 men SP can deal with 6 men Paras with LMGs at close/mid range. Dont belive me? I posted replay and screen somewhere. Just need a time to find it.

The point is not that their vet sucks, I agree, it doesnt. The point is that they have ridiculously high vet requirements and thus almost never get there in the first place. This might be a leftover from the very early days when Sturmpios had the Panzerschreck...I think I've only ever once seen a Sturmpio go past vet 3 in a 1v1...

Sry dont want to be a jerk here, but on reviewing that engagement, you actually did mismicro that badly. I know it is frowned upon in some quarters, but a-moving is absolutely recommendable with all LMG squads upon contact.

Man I can't wait to see the justifications as to why Vet 5 Volks are a good thing for the game.

Man I can't wait to see the justifications as to why Vet 5 Volks are a good thing for the game.

What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?
High vet Volks are a real problem.
High vet Sturms are not, for the simple reason that they are about as prevalent as a Unicorn, while it is very difficult to deny Volks vet unless you virtually omit any vehicle play.

Sturm pio's are not engineers.

then what are they?

And the fact that the OKW sweeper is worse than the Soviet sweeper for ~reasons~ is one of the reasons that Demo charges are so bloody amazing, with how jittery the game is most OKW players won't notice the demo charge till they are on top of it or almost on top of it and then it's bye bye 320+ MP.

Well don't forget that demos can't be used while sweeper is out and close to the demo.

then what are they?

pre-pubescent Obersoldaten?