4vs4 as allied

Hi, I really like The Company of Heroes Franchise and my favorite game type is 4vs4. even though OKW prevails most of the time in this kind of game because of the faction´s design, i think the allied could win more games by using the Speed and flexibility of their armies efficiently.

OKW´s strategy depends a lot on their truck, you will always find their troops massed around them. Last time i tried to attack their main base, which was defenceless, and to retreat before their troops came back. this actually really distrupted their main frontline and permitted my allies to crush their defence.

The OKW also use a lot of ressources on their trucks, ressources that can´t move for the rest of the game. The concentrated attack of 4 Players against one truck schould destroy it before any Counter attack come to support it. While all the other armies can retreat from a disavantageous engagement with few losses, the OKW will lose trucks and techs.

Think about a 1vs1 game. do you concentrate on the medical truck that heal and Support ennemy infantry ? or do you try to cut from his ressources and encircle him ? because in all 4vs4 game all the allied just Keep pushing against those trucks until the late game is here and it´s then GG.

Why do you want to spread all over the map to meet an enemy, who is stronger than yourself but can´t move ? on most map, the Focus of three Players on one side would be waaaaay more efficient than the usual 1vs1 face to face.

In the current game, you don´t want the axis to reach late game without winning some decisive Engagement. there is always a point when the axis forces reach a critical masse of tanks, and then, there is nothing you can do to win the game.

So even if there is obviously some Balance Problems in 4vs4, i think that if the allied would use the flexibilty and speed of their armies efficiently, they could still win a lot of games.

Hi and welcome to the club.

I agree on point that 4 players have higher chances against forward HQ, but in your theory you're putting 4 coordinated players on allied side and 4 autistic players as axis.

For example here's what I see as result in your scenarios:

OKW´s strategy depends a lot on their truck, you will always find their troops massed around them. Last time i tried to attack their main base, which was defenceless, and to retreat before their troops came back. this actually really distrupted their main frontline and permitted my allies to crush their defence.

You've left your allies outnumbered. They got defeated and had to stop their push and retreat. Then enemy came for you, and you had to retreat all the way through their lines, losing couple of squads. Instead of coordination you let your enemy to beat you part by part.

The OKW also use a lot of ressources on their trucks, ressources that can´t move for the rest of the game. The concentrated attack of 4 Players against one truck schould destroy it before any Counter attack come to support it. While all the other armies can retreat from a disavantageous engagement with few losses, the OKW will lose trucks and techs.

Again, if allies is so coordinated (say, they playing as arranged team) then why you assume that axis can't react in same coordinated manner? I know, it is somewhat map dependent, because, for example, on Vielsam indeed it is hard throw your army from one side of map to another.
But here also comes another problem. If I play vanila faction I have to retreat to my HQ in base sector. If I'm trying to fight on flank that is far from my HQ, my army will spend 90% of game time walking rather than fighting.

Think about a 1vs1 game. do you concentrate on the medical truck that heal and Support ennemy infantry ? or do you try to cut from his ressources and encircle him ? because in all 4vs4 game all the allied just Keep pushing against those trucks until the late game is here and it´s then GG.

Encircle how? He has healing+retreat point nearby. He will attack you constantly and get back for healing and reinforcing, while your army will go thin.
I play mostly soviet. As a soviet player I have no handheld AT and have quite crappy stock vehicles which I won't use unless I'm already ahead. So I'm very dependant on my AT guns in order to fend off Luchs or Flak HT, untill I will able to use my call-ins. Meanwhile my enemy have retreat+healing nearby and don't have to rely on team weapons with setup time and restricted arc of fire. Tell me how you call me more moblile with these AT guns?

Why do you want to spread all over the map to meet an enemy, who is stronger than yourself but can´t move ? on most map, the Focus of three Players on one side would be waaaaay more efficient than the usual 1vs1 face to face.

This contradicts your scenario #1 where you was attacking their base sector.
Again. If allied players so smart that they focus 3v1 on one side, then what the hell other 2 axis players doing?

Generally, I agree with you. You have to be coordinated as Allies in order to win.
But that's just means that 4v4 format is more demanding in terms of skill for Allies. The fact that 4v4 AT is somewhat balanced is another confirmation of that.

I've used that graph in another thread, but it fits here too, I guess:

Hi El slayer,

"You've left your allies outnumbered. They got defeated and had to stop their push and retreat. Then enemy came for you, and you had to retreat all the way through their lines, losing couple of squads. Instead of coordination you let your enemy to beat you part by part."

The main bulk of my allies was without me, but an unexpected attack on the main base always cause stress and under stress you make mistakes. Even if you don´t win an advantage by attacking the main base, you at least surprised him.

And also three allies working together is enough in my opinion. the last one can be used to harass the enemy.

"Again, if allies is so coordinated (say, they playing as arranged team) then why you assume that axis can't react in same coordinated manner? I know, it is somewhat map dependent, because, for example, on Vielsam indeed it is hard throw your army from one side of map to another.
But here also comes another problem. If I play vanila faction I have to retreat to my HQ in base sector. If I'm trying to fight on flank that is far from my HQ, my army will spend 90% of game time walking rather than fighting.
"

It is true that axis can also react together. But most of the time the okw Players don´t even think about what the enemy is going to do when they decide where to put their trucks. The fact remains that the ressources used in the FHQ won´t be there for a counter attack on an other front, as skilled as a Team can be.

on maps that don´t allow to fight together you can still go middle without Walking too much and Support your allies on the other sides.

"Encircle how? He has healing+retreat point nearby. He will attack you constantly and get back for healing and reinforcing, while your army will go thin.
I play mostly soviet. As a soviet player I have no handheld AT and have quite crappy stock vehicles which I won't use unless I'm already ahead. So I'm very dependant on my AT guns in order to fend off Luchs or Flak HT, until I will able to use my call-ins. Meanwhile my enemy have retreat+healing nearby and don't have to rely on team weapons with setup time and restricted arc of fire. Tell me how you call me more moblile with these AT guns?
"

Well the OKW can t be everywhere at once, and conscript vs volks early are a pretty fair fight. I agree with your Argument, but i still don´t think it is a good idea to attack a FHQ if you got the same amount of Units as the enemy. the t34/76 is actually not that bad. it is fast and can retreat pretty easily, though rather useless against medium, heavy tanks and FLAK Trucks.

Anyway one allied Player will never take alone a OKW Player with a FHQ Support and a FLAK truck. the only way to do it is to coordinate an attack with your Team mates. Even if the axis Team work together, you will have at least 40 seconds before a decent Counter attack arrives. As I said in the first post, i also don´t think that the game is balanced in 4vs4 match up.

The Flack Truck is the dumbiest Thing ever

in large teams 1 okw requires focus of 2 allies players. Its this balance that makes the game very axis favored and makes a lot of players call of issues.

As of right now USF lacks any early counter to the kubal, Luchs is hard to counter without getting AT nades, and FlakHQ deploys by the 6-7 min mark and is impossible to kill if well guarded. I can get torn apart buy axis players but Ive play all sides and in my opinion OKW in large team games has little to zero weaknesses unless the allies players wipe a truck early. There have been many posts about the flak HQ being OP as well as the 4v4 balance.



80% of the coh2 population plays 3v3's and 4v4's. "we balance for 1v1's"

As of right now USF lacks any early counter to the kubal, Luchs is hard to counter without getting AT nades, and FlakHQ deploys by the 6-7 min mark and is impossible to kill if well guarded. I can get torn apart buy axis players but Ive play all sides and in my opinion OKW in large team games has little to zero weaknesses unless the allies players wipe a truck early. There have been many posts about the flak HQ being OP as well as the 4v4 balance.

what is the solution then?....Is any Balance patch on the way ?

what is the solution then?....Is any Balance patch on the way ?

Relic doesnt care. Its been this way since launch

what is the solution then?....Is any Balance patch on the way ?

Play Axis like 90% players or AT ONLY with Allies.

what is the solution then?....Is any Balance patch on the way ?

To destroy an early OKW flak truck:

You need a mix of : (If someone know the exact number or demo or satchel needed, plz tell us)

Mortar smoke barrage or rifle'smoke grenades or Shock troop'smoke grenades
And
Penal's satchel charge (2 or 3)
And/Or
Paratroopers'demo charges (2 or 3)
And/Or
Sov's engineer's demo charges (2 or 3)
And/Or
Sov'zis gun barrage (as needed)

Or if without any smoke options:

Enough mortar fire and/or barrage as needed.

Other options must surely exist, plz someone tell us.

Thanks.

Play Axis like 90% players or AT ONLY with Allies.

Iv actually found the search stats to be pretty even. And at Euro prime time even dipping into more ~60% Allies ~40% Axis.

Regardless the search system sucks, not the best indication of player margins by any means.

in large teams 1 okw requires focus of 2 allies players. Its this balance that makes the game very axis favored and makes a lot of players call of issues.

As of right now USF lacks any early counter to the kubal, Luchs is hard to counter without getting AT nades, and FlakHQ deploys by the 6-7 min mark and is impossible to kill if well guarded. I can get torn apart buy axis players but Ive play all sides and in my opinion OKW in large team games has little to zero weaknesses unless the allies players wipe a truck early. There have been many posts about the flak HQ being OP as well as the 4v4 balance.



80% of the coh2 population plays 3v3's and 4v4's. "we balance for 1v1's"

Well, to be honest, usually it is not THAT hard to destroy Flak HQ in team games, but it is certainly requries effort, sometimes dedicated units, which you won't build otherwise, and ALWAYS REQUIRES TIME.
Time is a huge factor in game, where one side need to stall the game to late stage in order to win.

After recently playing a few large teamgames, all I can say is...just how can one enjoy this? I really don't understand it in the least. 3v3/4v4s almost exponentially increase all the flaws of the CoH franchise while retaining none of its virtues. Unit preservation does not really matter, apart maybe from the lategame tanks (infantry quickly becomes irrelevant), spam abounds, teching is so accelerated that there is no meaningful decisionmaking, and almost inevitably players seem to end up with army "compositions" of multiple heavy tanks plus repair squads, with the odd indirect fire unit thrown in. There seems to be zilch depth, and if there is any skill required, it is of a very different sort than what is needed in 1v1s... not to mention that balance is just terribad. Seriously, I would encourage everybody to make the plunge and try 1v1s. Its just alot more fun.

a 3 or 4's game were it's two AT's facing off against each other is really fun. You get to see a lot of cool strats that simply not viable in lower game modes.

But yeah randoms fucking suck, welcome to every Relic game since the beginning of time.

a 3 or 4's game were it's two AT's facing off against each other is really fun. You get to see a lot of cool strats that simply not viable in lower game modes.

But yeah randoms fucking suck, welcome to every Relic game since the beginning of time.

Dunno. 15 minute KTs, 3 B-4s on the map and similar abominations just make my CoH soul bleed. 4v4 is all sledgehammer and zero finesse. To each their own of course, but I will continue to play this only in a state of utter inebriation, and I am pretty sure most players will actually have a more rewarding experience in 1s once they get over the initial hurdles.

Yeah, it sucks when people enjoy stuff differently from the way you do.

Yeah, it sucks when people enjoy stuff differently from the way you do.

Eh, you got me all wrong. Is my wording so bad? What I've tried to do is to detail why I do not enjoy large teamgames, and yes, I suspect many people would also like ie. 1s better if they gave them a shot. Still, if other players do enjoy their 4s, of course all the better, more power to them.

Dunno. 15 minute KTs, 3 B-4s on the map and similar abominations just make my CoH soul bleed. 4v4 is all sledgehammer and zero finesse. To each their own of course, but I will continue to play this only in a state of utter inebriation, and I am pretty sure most players will actually have a more rewarding experience in 1s once they get over the initial hurdles.

I enjoy team games exactly BECAUSE of those things. You get to play around with silly strats and ideas you could never implement in 1's or 2's.

One time me and my friends decided to see how much we could abuse counterattack tactics. So every game we all went it. Needless to say we couldn't find an Axis team that could handle 4 Hordes of For Mother Russia buffed infantry, supported by 8 Heavy tanks. The 4 B4's also helped quite a bit.

Just gotta make the game fun for yourself dude, 1's are just so cookie cutter it's tiresome.

4v4 just feels more epic

As of right now USF lacks any early counter to the kubal,

you gotta remember the counter for things sometimes exist tactically. a double RE start allows your first to get into a covered position/chase around the kubel while your other caps/flanks, buying time for your rifle squad to encircle or chase it from the field.

if things go as planned you can expect around: 2 kubels, 2 volks squads and 2 Sturms, you'll have some mixture of 3 starting units and 3-4 combat squads/and or a maxim.(depending on force mix) divide and conquer. it'll take a lot of micro but win that engagement, force them to counter attack and you've put yourself in really good shape.

i always go rifle company so i can get riflegrenade from the getgo

kubel is so fucking OP

i always go rifle company so i can get riflegrenade from the getgo

kubel is so fucking OP

And then you realize you can use that 2nd squad to flank the kübel while the other one i being suppressed forcing the kübel back or killing it.