vs OKW, merely for information...

Like seriously, how do you have fun fighting them?

Now, inb4 l2p, I know I haven't got a ton of plays with Soviets, and I'm not highly ranked or anything, but I've played quite a bit of CoH when it was still a thing, and am trying to get back into RTS proper. So I know about three way flanking, and smoke use, and mining, and so on. I just want to really know how I'm expected to win against OKW without playing my pants off and giving myself high blood pressure or something.

It's like, I never feel comfortable at any stage of the game when playing against them. Early game it's a struggle to deal with Sturms, Kubel and Volks with mere conscripts, and when one gets Maxims their less than ideal arc and suppression make them easy to flank by players who aren't brain dead. I've had some success with snipers, but I don't think they put on the MP bleed on cheapish 5 man Volksgrenadiers. A little later you can somewhat stabilise when you get Shocks out - but this means that you're forced into choosing a doctrine with shocks. I dunno if it's just me, but I find even vetted conscripts with PPSH upgrades have damage and sustainability issues against OKW infantry, especially since they don't have smoke so that they can close the distance.

Which brings me to my point about infantry. Sure, on paper 1v1 unvetted conscripts beat unvetted Volks, but only in the early game do you face unvetted Volks, and in the early game they can be screened by Sturmpioneers. Late game conscripts are useless. Shock troopers are pretty good at killing most infantry - until Obersoldaten hit the field, and Volk vet starts skyrocketing when their Schrecks start hitting armour. Then you chance it with smoke grenades and hope your opponent is an idiot who blobs into only being able to fire from one direction.

Sure, arty can beat blobs. Katyushas are nice for breaking up blobs - but that means investing in Katyushas, which die to a stiff breeze, and you have to devote inordinate amounts of resources to prevent them from being flanked. Had a volks squad run past a maxim, get suppressed, but still get their volley of FGM-148 Javelins off to kill my Katyusha. Then retreat past my entire army with impunity because dat vet makes them so damn tough.

AT options are pretty horrible too. ZiS-3 gun has subpar penetration. Sure, it can penetrate Panthers most of the time, but if your opponent isn't braindead, he's not going to let the Panther get hit more than one time, and conscript at grenades don't guarantee a damaged engine - that is, if you get conscripts who can close in time vs fast panther and supporting infantry fire to get an AT grenade off. Don't even get me started on using the ZiS-3 to reliably penetrate King Tigers.

But, but, King Tigers! By that time you would have heavy armour, wouldn't you? I don't think so. For one, if you had IS-2, you wouldn't have B-4 howitzer, which is one of the few effective weapons in fighting volks blob of doom. And IS-2 is slow - which makes it easy to get flanked by Volks, or get caught for longer in the firing arc of a pak43. Sure, it's a good tank, but it's not like OKW don't have the tools to deal with it in their stride, whereas it's such a pain to deal with a King Tiger micro'd with any degree of common sense.

I don't want it to be super easy to deal with OKW; I just wish it wasn't so hard. As it stands, vetted scripts and shocks are hard to reach and yet are easily countered by unvetted Obersoldaten. Fast Panther or Volks deathball kills Katyusha by looking at it angrily with a single flank. OKW heavy armour controlled with a modicum of common sense has no good counters. I feel like, I three way flank with conscripts early game, stagger my maxims to cover each other, get mortars and shocks to smoke assault their fixed positions, push up to the sectors right outside their base - then vetted volks and obersoldaten just roll inexorably over my forces, and it's so hard to stop them.

i had a much higher blood pressure dealing with a wall of at guns, double snipers, pershing and vetrifles as PE in coh1

@OP: for 1v1, your best chance for helpful assistance would be to download up to 3 of the matches you nearly won, or losses where you do not understand why you did badly. It makes it a lot easier for others to help you, rather than just theorycraft

e.g. I have no idea from your post what your basic BO is with Cons Do you upgrade them at all with Molotovs and/or AT? Do you use their merge ability, or Oorah? And when do you tech to T2 etc etc

Replays resolve all of this stuff.

Replays resolve all of this stuff.

^

@OP This video involves fighting a KT..with the Soviet Reserve Army from N Semoiski.

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  0

  VS

  Jesulin

  Jihadi_Goku

  Jesulin plays Soviet Reserve Army v KT

  by: MajorBloodnok map: Semoskiy

  3

  -

And this video shows you it can be done, without overstocking yourself with support weapons, or heavy tank call-ins

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  2

  VS

  Quentin ( The King Quentin XIV )

  Buggy.

  Quentin:no Shox;no Guards;no Maxims; no Penals;no ISU;Wot?

  by: MajorBloodnok map: Kholodny Ferma

  2

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Soviet conscript spam on urban maps,t1 on other

Soviet conscript spam on urban maps,t1 on other

And? Address the OP's points, when considering your conclusions (which are correct).

Dont forget that mines/demos win games because OKW suck at clearing mines. This include trip wire flares (cost effective against obers) and give good scouting info to prevent flanking. Watch good soviet players and they will consistently get at least 1-2 squad wipes with mines/demos.
Also while capping with cons place strategic green cover which are good for mgs and stalling with cons.

To save munitions and fuel early in the game get one or two flamers instead of molotovs. T2 openings are much safer than T1. Get 1-2 mgs (getting more than that makes soviet vulnerable to early armor) early which are important to push back the kubel if they get one and also suppress the SP squad.

Save all fuel for fast T70 and then get a zis gun. Get zis gun and more cons first if you see flak HT and then "maybe" T3. T4 are only viable in team games, T3 are a must to counter luchs or push pressure on early obers. Until call in tanks come T70 are the only armor that can reliable kill retreating squads in the entire match.
If OKW dont get luchs then maybe skip T3 for a KV8 rush to kill the flak HQ. Flak HQ will prioritize armor so use the KV8 as meatshield while your own infantry focus on his volks/at guns that are shooting at the KV8. Combine this with one AT gun and fire arty and that Flak HQ will go down very fast.

Since OKW have no decent counter arty without stuka its also pretty safe midgame to get 1-2 mortars to barrage the trucks from relative safe distance. Some creative soviet players also use mortar smoke to close in with their infantry or armor. Same tactic can to used to prevent flak HQ from doing damage.

Also dont forget to use cons merge ability which are good to reinforce flamers/mgs/at guns/shocks to prevent early retreat.

Imo Cons are fine as T0, the problem for soviet is they have no decent long range dps upgrades like axis lmgs. So late game soviet have to rely on flanking, indirect fire, smoke to close distance, mines, grenades and armor. So on open maps soviet late game tends to be more micro intensive because they cant just A-move like the Axis long range dps blob.

I haven't played since the february updates so I don't know if the following information is still valid, so feel free to ignore it, but prior to the update this really did the trick:

conscript, maxim, conscript, maxim, molotovs. Pin with maxims, chase off with molotovs. Get AT guns and don't be afraid to use their barrage ability. Get T3 and spam T34s. You can mix this up with infantry and armor call-ins.

Of course you must be flexible and make on the spot changes if needed.

You shouldnt have issues playing against okw early game as soviet at all, if u go meta like 4 cons molotovs into 120 mm mortars (in case ur forced to get back or to clear fhqs) or shocks u should dominate and get the map control. U should be able to get out kv8 before he gets panther out and destroy his t4. If u have rly good map control, dont wait for call ins and tech up for t70 to deal with infantry or t34/76. Lay down mines/demos everywhere. If the okw player still manages to get to late game u should have some maxims to stop obers/jagers since cons wont be able to fight them. I would also recommend u to get at least 2 at guns in case that KT is on the field. As i noticed lately su 85 is rly decent in straight open maps with not many flank options, so its rly good against okw late armor.