reasoning for putting a flak gun on the OKW base building?

...while obers are just good at shooting infantry that are running at them

I'd rather paras they get to plant demo charges can be upgrade to either be good in close combat or long range combat can reinforce at the relay beacons while obers are just good at shooting infantry that are running at them

He's 100% right about Para's having much more utility than Obers.

Obers are good for.....shooting at infantry? How this is in any way an incorrect point?

No, it's not. The game was literally designed around using doctrine units to counter stock units. Do you think the commander system exists just for shits and giggles?



Not because Obers are better, but because the LMG34 is very good. If you want Obers to be less bullshit then the solution is to make Ober's better, but remove the LMG34 or make it a 120 munition upgrade.

I am glad we agree on something, Obers should pay for their LMG just like everyone faction.

You obviously dont know what's the problem.
1. SU have no problems with dealing with flak base.
2. USF have problems. No AT Gun or no HMG.
3. Smoke+2demo. Count how many ammo this is.
4. Now think about spending that amount of ammo to counter a bulding.
5. CoH2 is about capping points. You can't cap if there is flakbase
6. Flakbase was deisgned to defend point with 200% income. This feature no longer exists.
7.
8.
9....
And many many other points why flak base should not be in current form but right now Im going to watch Liverpool - Burnley

Smoke plus 2 demo is 105 munitions with the demos being 45 munitions and smoke being 15 munitions
Your second problem while it saddens me to say this can be averted with the airborne commander or the infantry commander ( you dont need mgs when you can get your riflemen to do the suppression )
Bunkers/fighting positions stop you from capping points aswell and you can build multiple of those (Yes I know it has a 90 degree angle making it easier to flank)

Now with the usf being my favourite faction I dislike that they separated their support weapons as if you go tier 1 you are left without at other than mines, bazookas (if you researched them) or doctrinal units and tier 2 leaves you without suppression, mines and anti air but if you take that thing out quick early in the game before panthers and obers come in then you gotta spend muni and every commander excluding rife have an effective way to take it out (with munitions of course) and I can list them if I have to

Double post (admins delete this post please)

I am glad we agree on something, Obers should pay for their LMG just like everyone faction.

They don't because Obers with out the LMG are bleh at 400 MP. They need to get a buff if they lose their LMG34.

They don't because Obers with out the LMG are bleh at 400 MP. They need to get a buff if they lose their LMG34.

Same could be said about Paras for that matter, without LMGs or thompsons they're just more expensive riflemen with an extra man and a different ability.


also were still waiting on you to provide a source that proves relic intend the Soviets to be call in heavy/reliant.

Same could be said about Paras for that matter, without LMGs or thompsons they're just more expensive riflemen with an extra man and a different ability.


also were still waiting on you to provide a source that proves relic intend the Soviets to be call in heavy/reliant.

Para's are quite good with out their LMG's or Tompsons, they just get to be even better when you get them.

Obers with out the LMG34 would be worse than Sturms in every situation that didn't involve max range while still costing more.

And my source is logic. Soviet commanders give you call in tanks and call in infantry for a reason. Do you think it's totally a coincidence?

And my source is logic. Soviet commanders give you call in tanks and call in infantry for a reason. Do you think it's totally a coincidence?

OKW commanders give you call in infantry as well.

And now people are laughing at me because I prefer paratroopers nice!
So I might aswell explain why
Paratroopers can make things you want to go boom with their demo charge
They can be landed for 380 mp onto the battlefield so you can use them to reinforce your forces somewhere on the map or provide a much needed flank
They can be upgraded for close combat or long range combat for 90-120 munitions
They're not SS Nazi's

Now I love paratroopers in general I have fallschirmjager as my profile picture if you noticed but obers are just good at keeping infantry off your back any armor can counter them easily but of course the okw player will have anti tank units nearby (volks shreks or tanks)
At the end of the day its how effectively you use your army and that I managed to beat obers a few times because I used a 20 muni ability after purchasing a 120 muni upgrade

But to sum it up paratroopers are more flexible unit than obers and can fill in more roles so I like them more either that or I didnt get screwed over as hard by obers as you guys

Edit: Relay beacons I love em because you can have 3 anywhere on the map for free and it allows your paras to reinforce at them so you dont have to run back to base to reinforce allowing your paras to get back into the fight quicker

OKW commanders give you call in infantry as well.

Utility infantry for scouting. Neither JLI, Fuss, or Fallsch are supposed to be the core of your army/assault force. JLI are just OKW Pathfinders, Fallsch are insanely expensive while being quite fragile, and Fuss are just slightly better 6 man Volks with no shrek.

They are supposed to augment your force so you can adapt, none are supposed to be your bread and butter like shocks, but they do give you the utility of conscripts which OKW lacks.

Para's are quite good with out their LMG's or Tompsons, they just get to be even better when you get them.

Obers with out the LMG34 would be worse than Sturms in every situation that didn't involve max range while still costing more.

And my source is logic. Soviet commanders give you call in tanks and call in infantry for a reason. Do you think it's totally a coincidence?

Sure Paras do damage without a weapon upgrade but not enough to justify calling them in the first or selecting Airborne in the first place.

Obers worse than sturms? Sturms arent bullet proof, dont have lethal grenades, are only close range while obers cant repair/lay mines and do other engineering things


"And my source is logic. Soviet commanders give you call in tanks and call in infantry for a reason. Do you think it's totally a coincidence?"

ummmmmmmm




All factions have several commanders that give access to call in tanks/infantry I fail the point your trying to make

Utility infantry for scouting. Neither JLI, Fuss, or Fallsch are supposed to be the core of your army/assault force. JLI are just OKW Pathfinders, Fallsch are insanely expensive while being quite fragile, and Fuss are just slightly better 6 man Volks with no shrek.

They are supposed to augment your force so you can adapt, none are supposed to be your bread and butter like shocks, but they do give you the utility of conscripts which OKW lacks.

Whaaat??? They are melting infantry. 20 kills for Pathfinder is someting but for Jaeger? Thery are amazing. Keep them behind Volks and watch how they are sniping.

Fallsch are fragile the the dps... Just get behind green cover. And again they are expesinve cause they spawn from any buidling and have amazing weapons already.

Fuss are great as well. Fuss+Med truck without Flakbase is quite good strat.

And by the way, Ostheer also has call in infantry and tanks.

I feel like it's more kind of meta problem than anything else. All allied meta commanders have basically no doctrinal arty apart from flame/phosphorus barrage that does noting to trucks. I mean I now why ppl choose those commanders but they should not be surprised that they pay for getting usefull callins with unability to counter other things like trucks for example. Outmap arty can reliably take 80% of that building in one damage so you could kill it with 2-3 shots from any medium tank or atgun and onmap arty also easily kills it once it hits pios that try to repair it.

Sure Paras do damage without a weapon upgrade but not enough to justify calling them in the first or selecting Airborne in the first place.

Obers worse than sturms? Sturms arent bullet proof, dont have lethal grenades, are only close range while obers cant repair/lay mines and do other engineering things


"And my source is logic. Soviet commanders give you call in tanks and call in infantry for a reason. Do you think it's totally a coincidence?"

ummmmmmmm


All factions have several commanders that give access to call in tanks/infantry I fail the point your trying to make

I think the point alex was trying to get across with the ober/sturm thing is that Obers need to spawn with the mg34 otherwise they will be worser than sturms Im not sure though
Also I dont play soviets much but I did notice alot of people complain about how it is reliant on call ins maybe someone who played the game alot more than me could explain this further

P.S we are going off topic again

I feel like it's more kind of meta problem than anything else. All allied meta commanders have basically no doctrinal arty apart from flame/phosphorus barrage that does noting to trucks. I mean I now why ppl choose those commanders but they should not be surprised that they pay for getting usefull callins with unability to counter other things like trucks for example. Outmap arty can reliably take 80% of that building in one damage so you could kill it with 2-3 shots from any medium tank or atgun and onmap arty also easily kills it once it hits pios that try to repair it.

It shouldn't require doctrine based abilities or units to COUNTER STOCK ONES!


Why is this so hard for people to understand? Needing a doctrine just to counter something stock is horrible game design and places way to much emphasis on doctrine! I get so tired of reading people arguing doctrine based units/abilities to counter stock units as balance. Its ok to make a recommendation to help counter something, but try to use that as a point of balance?

NO!

So Obers without LMG would be pure shit?
That's new...

4 man squad with 13,4dps at max range is shit? It's almost like Grens with LMG.
Paras squad, 6 man at max range has 9,5...

Try Terror Officer. This squad is not like Obers of course but still can easily get 10-25kills with 10dps at max range.

It shouldn't require doctrine based abilities or units to COUNTER STOCK ONES!


Why is this so hard for people to understand? Needing a doctrine just to counter something stock is horrible game design and places way to much emphasis on doctrine! I get so tired of reading people arguing doctrine based units/abilities to counter stock units as balance. Its ok to make a recommendation to help counter something, but try to use that as a point of balance?

NO!

To take out the flak truck as us and without commanders it would be at gun, howitzer, tanks, majors artillery ability, mortar tank thing but commanders provide you with more efficient ways and more options of course

To take out the flak truck as us and without commanders it would be at gun, howitzer, tanks, majors artillery ability, mortar tank thing but commanders provide you with more efficient ways and more options of course

my mistake I never clarified my position on this matter before posting. Cant i be countered? Yes... even without commanders It can... But as many others have said before me its the very notion of omnidirectional anti-everything, durable defensive structure from what is at its core a unit production building. Its simply too much in its current state.
I can live with it being armed but it being armed to point of mass area denial on some maps coupled with making your fuel unharassable simply by teching up is on the extreme side. At the very least it should do 0 dmg to medium tanks!