OKW Teching fixes

AFter playing plenty of game in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4s I have come up with a theory on how to fixes the OKW Blobing problems, without having to change their units stats. (Note: I Still feel a need to do something with the Volks with shrecks) I fell that in everyone of my games with OKW that they tech way to fast into late game. Which is OBers and Panther. Obers can hit the field in about 7 to 10 min, and panther will be out around 15. this is a problems because at the point OBer hit the field the battle swings to far in the OKW faver. This is because there are no Manpower answers to Obers, only fuel. This is because Obers are late game units and they get the fight and vet in early to mid game. This is a problem and needs to be fixed, and to do this all that needs to be done is to delay OKW tier 4.

The fact that OKW only have to have either tier 1 or tier 2 before they can get tier 4 which has all their late game units is bad. Oster and Soviets have to wait until there call in come. Americans will only having to tech once like OKW, there late game units are no were near as powerful as the OKWs. This is why we see ober at 7 mins. This i feel is one of the major reasons for the Volks/Ober Blob meta. The fact is without the OBers coming in when they do the volks would stand no chance alone and allied inf could easily deal with then and force the OkW player to do something else.

So here are my ideas on how to slow down the OKW enough to let the other factions keep up.

First Change: Tier 2, Forward retreat point is not allowed to be bought till tier 3 has been built. Also Cost change for Forward retreat point to 200 MP and 10 fuel.

-the fact that OKW get a Forward Retreat point in the First 5 minutes is by far the most op thing in the game. the fact is americans don't get there Forward Retreat point until they unlock there last tier. (Sov and Ost don't get one at all ) This gives OKW so much map presence in all games types. This change will make the OKW blob retreat more meaning full, and punishing. The fuel cost is to reflect the power of forward retreat point, and the fact the american one cost 490 mp and 100 fuel (major and ambulance). Granted americans can move, but OKWs is harder then hell to kill. The fuel cost will also slow down tech, again the lack of fuel was because of beta OKW that only got fuel from 4 points.

Second Change: Tier 4 can't be built till tier 2 and tier 3 are built. This will A. give time for the other factions to get out their late game units. This will also justify units like the Ober and Panther power, because they in a sense have a extra 240 mp and 35 fuel added to their cost, because the OKW player must built tier 3. This will also stop OKW player from Blocking off half of the map with their Flak Gun in the first 10 minutes. This will allow the allies to amass enough of an army to deal with the emplacement.

Well this is my idea, and i feel it would be an easy change that wouldn't destroy the OKW as a faction and force OWK players out of the meta. thoughts?

The forward retreat point is better for you then it is for him if he puts it close to the front, center your mortars and artillery in on it and enjoy the free kills.

OKW has fast tiering because they have reduced income meaning that the units come out around the same time as others do. Shocks are elite units which come out at only 2 CP

The solution is to make Obers less bullshit, not to gate OKW's only AI infantry behind a insane teching system.

The forward retreat point is better for you then it is for him if he puts it close to the front, center your mortars and artillery in on it and enjoy the free kills.

OKW has fast tiering because they have reduced income meaning that the units come out around the same time as others do. Shocks are elite units which come out at only 2 CP

The solution is to make Obers less bullshit, not to gate OKW's only AI infantry behind a insane teching system.

OKW have a lot of other AI options. AA halftrack, Sturm Pios, FJ, Volks are not that bad, Can't think of the name but the inf in the breakthrough doctrine. You cant say that Obers are the only AI option. They are by far the best AI unit in the game and their for should be behind a little more fuel. Especially if they don't have to my their LMG.

As for the Forward retreat point while i agree with the mortars for sovites (120 mm ), granted it takes some RNG. what do you recomend for the usf, no mortars (but halftrack) and there pak howlie could do it. Is still feel the OKW get there Forward retreat point way to early. I personally would like to see forward retreat point taken out of the game. but what can your do

The forward retreat point is better for you then it is for him if he puts it close to the front, center your mortars and artillery in on it and enjoy the free kills.

OKW has fast tiering because they have reduced income meaning that the units come out around the same time as others do. Shocks are elite units which come out at only 2 CP

The solution is to make Obers less bullshit, not to gate OKW's only AI infantry behind a insane teching system.

baring howitzers and rocket artillery it's very easy to dodge mortars and given the field presence they have it's also easy to force off anything attacking them. tl;dr the forward hq is better for OKW then anyone else.

OKW have a lot of other AI options. AA halftrack, Sturm Pios, FJ, Volks are not that bad, Can't think of the name but the inf in the breakthrough doctrine. You cant say that Obers are the only AI option. They are by far the best AI unit in the game and their for should be behind a little more fuel. Especially if they don't have to my their LMG.

As for the Forward retreat point while i agree with the mortars for sovites (120 mm ), granted it takes some RNG. what do you recomend for the usf, no mortars (but halftrack) and there pak howlie could do it. Is still feel the OKW get there Forward retreat point way to early. I personally would like to see forward retreat point taken out of the game. but what can your do

Volks lose out to pretty much any of the base infantry units (yes even conscripts) and the AA HT is countered by a single AT gun or just small arms fire. The point of Obers is that they help fight the giant rifle/shock blobs roaming the map, they are a bit to good tho and should be tuned down.

baring howitzers and rocket artillery it's very easy to dodge mortars and given the field presence they have it's also easy to force off anything attacking them. tl;dr the forward hq is better for OKW then anyone else.

Saying it's easy to dodge mortars is the cry of someone who's not had to deal with 120's bombarding you.

Volks lose out to pretty much any of the base infantry units (yes even conscripts) and the AA HT is countered by a single AT gun or just small arms fire. The point of Obers is that they help fight the giant rifle/shock blobs roaming the map, they are a bit to good tho and should be tuned down.

Volks do fine. Put them in cover or run them in pairs and they will do fine. And as for the AA halftrack with the buff it got it can easily get away from at guns (vet 1 smoke counters AT guns), go to another part of the map and deal with inf.

Obers can still fill this role, just they have to wait till around 15 mins to do so. When these problems start to be a real problems and need a hard hard counter.

Saying it's easy to dodge mortars is the cry of someone who's not had to deal with 120's bombarding you.

no, i've been on both ends of them. i did forget about them though as i haven't seen them in a while. they're the only infantry artillery that are effective against OKW bases (possibly too effective but that's for a different thread). they are however doctrine locked so there is one barrier there.

captured liegs might works too but that's an unlikely proposition, for a lot of reasons.

no, i've been on both ends of them. i did forget about them though as i haven't seen them in a while. they're the only infantry artillery that are effective against OKW bases (possibly too effective but that's for a different thread). they are however doctrine locked so there is one barrier there.

captured liegs might works too but that's an unlikely proposition, for a lot of reasons.

You kidding? 75mm howitzers, 82 mm mortars, Howitzers, ect. All infantry based indirect fire options work well.

To my personal opinion, they just need to rework the entire faction. It has so many advantages compared to other factions. But this is a standard Relic thing, Look at the Tiger 'ace', like that unit needs a more powerful vet 3 status xd. Look at the potency of riflemen spam, it is just to horribly op in hands of some good players. And then, Maxim spam, hahahaha, if used correctly ( I am guilty to this ) they can halt Ostheer in its tracks. OKW will find a way against it (kubel).

It is not just the OKW faction but the entire balance is off.

DO NOT! just nerf one faction or remove its options etc, they need to fix everything. OKW is a faction that some players enjoy (I do not know how or why), don't make it into a second Ostheer of impotency. Same for USF, don't nerf them into the ground or we all have boring ass factions that have only 2 or 3 viable units like the Ostheer.

Don't get me wrong, I do not like the OKW faction, but we must not resolve to creating another disaster. My favorite faction is the Ostheer, I love making a bunker, and some nice defenses and some mortars here and there. But the impotency that has hit the Ostheer since a few months, made the faction very very lame and sometimes even completely useless. How much I dislike the OKW, I do not wish that upon OKW players, even if their faction is horrible for gameplay.

the packhowitzer has the range of a mortar and can't retreat (the barrage is shit). both it and mortars will work but only if you can pin them at the med truck with a machine gun, other wise they move out from base and you have to back off. the stationary howitzers work but are doctrine locked. rocket artillery also works, as does the priest, and to some extent the M8. those are all late game options though. globals also work but require LoS and timing. really, the easiest way is to force a blob retreat and then use some basic timing with the katy (in this case the volleys fired by the katy are a good thing because it's easier to make the timing, pwerfer would be a bitch to try and get wipes with). the 120mm is that special combination of range and really good aoe combined with a decent fire rate and is easily the best infantry based option. su76 will also work if it doesn't get killed by something.

To my personal opinion, they just need to rework the entire faction. It has so many advantages compared to other factions. But this is a standard Relic thing, Look at the Tiger 'ace', like that unit needs a more powerful vet 3 status xd. Look at the potency of riflemen spam, it is just to horribly op in hands of some good players. And then, Maxim spam, hahahaha, if used correctly ( I am guilty to this ) they can halt Ostheer in its tracks. OKW will find a way against it (kubel).

It is not just the OKW faction but the entire balance is off.

DO NOT! just nerf one faction or remove its options etc, they need to fix everything. OKW is a faction that some players enjoy (I do not know how or why), don't make it into a second Ostheer of impotency. Same for USF, don't nerf them into the ground or we all have boring ass factions that have only 2 or 3 viable units like the Ostheer.

Don't get me wrong, I do not like the OKW faction, but we must not resolve to creating another disaster. My favorite faction is the Ostheer, I love making a bunker, and some nice defenses and some mortars here and there. But the impotency that has hit the Ostheer since a few months, made the faction very very lame and sometimes even completely useless. How much I dislike the OKW, I do not wish that upon OKW players, even if their faction is horrible.

Unlike the Ostheer OkW tier are all good and give you something for making them, and all unlock the best tank in the game KT. Also most of the time OKW players get all tiers any way. All this would change is the order the tiers come out, and by default make tier 4 units come out later.

The funny thing is by forcing the player to get tier 3 first the OKW would be getting more fuel or ammo in the long run because of the conversion.

As to the state of balance. The way I see power levels and balance state of the game is. OKW> Soviets> USF> Osteer. With USF and OKW having better updated mechanics and tech structure. i would like to see all factions on the OKW level of power and the mechanics and tech structure of the ostheer and soviet revamped.

With this being said OkW doesn't need to be nerf into the ground,but it still needs a nerf. And my idea is by far the most lenient idea, and i fell it would be enough to bring OKW more in line with at least the Soviets. At the end of the day i a big fan of units, abilities, and factions not being so over the top. That is what the Command and Conquer series is for.

Perhaps nerf the mg34 abit and give them a mg42 upgrade that costs munitions (the cost of the mg42 and effectiveness of the mg42 aswell as the mg34 nerf I dont know what to do with upto someone who would know better)

Volks do fine. Put them in cover or run them in pairs and they will do fine. And as for the AA halftrack with the buff it got it can easily get away from at guns (vet 1 smoke counters AT guns), go to another part of the map and deal with inf.

Mate you cannot simply make such claims. you cannot simply move to the other side of the map. your income will be ruined. and some cases its not possible.

And volks only do fine until the elite infantry or upgrades start to appear. getting obers is mandatory if you dont have fusiliers or FSJ. and even they bite it against usf lmg spam.

Volks lose out to pretty much any of the base infantry units (yes even conscripts)

Stop lying

Stop lying

He's not lying, Volksgrenadiers and Conscripts have very similar DPS at all ranges below 25 meters, yet Conscripts also have a 6th man which means higher durability. Here's proof.

He's not lying, Volksgrenadiers and Conscripts have very similar DPS at all ranges below 25 meters, yet Conscripts also have a 6th man which means higher durability. Here's proof.

VET

Saying it's easy to dodge mortars is the cry of someone who's not had to deal with 120's bombarding you.

Hah, totally agreed +1

VET

Moving the goalposts.

Vet was not mentioned. Volks vs Cons was.

Thread is looking at the OKW Teching system, and trying to bring it in line.