Ostheer: What is to be done?

StuG-E, while fragile, is way too wipey.
The Tiger, on the other hand, keeps being overestimated.

I have to admit Iv not used a Tiger in so bloody long that I actually remembered the damn thing as having a slow ROF. Still for the Panther that's damn long.

No, you just talk trash to defend the only faction you play. Some of your posts used to be informative and enjoyable but you've succeeded in becoming as toxic as Sierra as mentioned by others and its probably time for you to make a new account since your reputation is in ruin.

Considering that the StuG E is so fragile I wouldn't say it's a problem, I mean a single medium tank can easily kill it, or hell, a PTRS squad can bloody do damage to is.

It's just better than the Ostheer stock units, which is a trend across basically every faction but USF.

No, you just talk trash to defend the only faction you play. Some of your posts used to be informative and enjoyable but you've succeeded in becoming as toxic as Sierra as mentioned by others and its probably time for you to make a new account since your reputation is in ruin.

I play every single faction in the game, and I apologize every time I am wrong, you never see Sierra do that. How is apologizing when your wrong and admitting defeat somehow bad, I thought people would find it refreshing in this thunderdome of a discussion forum.

Ontopic regarding first post.

Tech:
-Swap BP cost with building cost
-Reduce by 30mp T2, T3 and T4

Pio:
-Reduce cost to 180-190mp
-Increase building time of S-mines
-Reduce cost of medkits to 10-15. Let them cast it on themselves

Gren:
-remove increase Rnade range on vet
-Split vet2 RA buff with vet1


MG42: Give them V formation
Sniper: Increase health

221/222: improve a bit mobility. Either improve a bit armor or the autocannon accuracy.
HT: FHT upgrade cost 100
PG:
-Give them smoke at vet 1 and split RA buffs from vet2 with vet1
-G43 package gives them 3 G43 + 1 G43 scoped. Increased LoS.

Stug-G: revert it's profile. Increase cost, reduce AI, increase a bit health, increase AT performance.
Stug-E: sligly reduce reload OR AoE.
Ostwind: slight supression (?)

Werfer: either a better reload time and/or better scatter values.

LefH: improve damage. Give it either a better reload time and/or 2 more shells.

Counter barrage: improve range and accuracy.

Stormtroopers: reduce cost of Stg package

Assault Grens: improve vet bonuses so they remain a bit more relevant during late game.

I like these people saying ostheer T3 is hardcountered by jacksons. Jesus, learn to fucking position your paks properly. Like seriously.

Ostheer is fine. I have zero clue why the fuck everyone thinks ostheer is so bad in 1v1. They are fine vs soviets and all it needs againts USF is the lieutenant and m20 and aa HT needs to be delayed by a minute or two. That's it.


Of course theres still the call in meta issue but that's also an issue with soviets so not really an ostheer specific issue.

No, you just talk trash to defend the only faction you play. Some of your posts used to be informative and enjoyable but you've succeeded in becoming as toxic as Sierra as mentioned by others and its probably time for you to make a new account since your reputation is in ruin.

lmao this is some serious rage

I like these people saying ostheer T3 is hardcountered by jacksons. Jesus, learn to fucking position your paks properly. Like seriously.

Ostheer is fine. I have zero clue why the fuck everyone thinks ostheer is so bad in 1v1. They are fine vs soviets and all it needs againts USF is the lieutenant and m20 and aa HT needs to be delayed by a minute or two. That's it.


Of course theres still the call in meta issue but that's also an issue with soviets so not really an ostheer specific issue.

P4 spam can work. but its difficult due to rifles beating grens in almost all situations

@Chino: I think those are good suggestions if one was to go for an incremental buff solution.
@Burts: I am gonna go out on a limb here and assume you are serious? If so, please just consider the stats or the recent tourney. They of course do not answer the "why", and I could write a long winded essay on the root causes, but I don't think the OH 1v1 inferiority can be seriously doubted.

I like these people saying ostheer T3 is hardcountered by jacksons. Jesus, learn to fucking position your paks properly. Like seriously.

Ostheer is fine. I have zero clue why the fuck everyone thinks ostheer is so bad in 1v1. They are fine vs soviets and all it needs againts USF is the lieutenant and m20 and aa HT needs to be delayed by a minute or two. That's it.


Of course theres still the call in meta issue but that's also an issue with soviets so not really an ostheer specific issue.

Ostheers issues go far beyond single issues like the fact that T3 is nonviable and Grens/Pgrens are fragile.

Overall the most glaring thing is the fact all the factions are similar tech wise, in that they are not linear, while Ostheer teching is.

Soviets: t1 or t2 ---> T3 or T4

Americans: t1 or t2 ---> T3

OKW: t1 or t2 ----> T3

Ostheer: t1 ---> t2 ---> t3 ----> t4

Then you have the fact that t0 (HQ) for every faction comes with units/upgrades while Ostheer has no upgrades except activating their next tier, and they can only build Pio's from their HQ.

EDIT: I should also mention that Ostheer is the only faction that makes any sense at all design wise, which is why they are so weak.

@Chino: I think those are good suggestions if one was to go for an incremental buff solution.
@Burts: I am gonna go out on a limb here and assume you are serious? If so, please just consider the stats or the recent tourney. They of course do not answer the "why", and I could write a long winded essay on the root causes, but I don't think the OH 1v1 inferiority can be seriously doubted.

Well, the last finals of the game was won by ostheer, so that's that. I'm not saying that ostheer is completely fine in 1v1, like i said, the m20 and AA HT are especially hard to deal with as ostheer and are serious issues. But other than that IMO they are fine.

Another big issue is the maps, i can agree that alot of the maps are seriously inbalanced and favour axis or allies.

I just dont see any major issues with ostheer here and why they suck so bad.

People can say AA BOO grens/pgrens are fragile but i will reply to them and say that both grens, pgrens and even mg-42 are fine units. Just need to use them appropriatelly. Once you get out your double paks, and stug E or PIV, you have a very strong army composition that is exceptionally hard to crack when its microed well.

One PIV + double paks + 4 grens + mg-42 is enough to beat all USF can throw at you. Of course it's not always that simple but that's generally how you do it.


Cons and grens is pretty much a 50/50 play and depends on the range and cover positioning.

Rifles and grens has rifle advantage across all boards, but once grens start to get LMGs it becomes mostly a fair fight and due to rifle veterancy being so bad vet 3 LMG grens will usually beat double BAR rifles on open maps.

TIP : Always get a flame pioneer first, it will do wonders vs both USF and SOV.

I have no idea what Alexzandvar is rambling about, sure their teching is linear.. so what? I mean soviets have to use even more fuel than ostheer to get to T3 , yet T3 is quite common for hte soviets these days.

It's not the fuel that's the issue, it's the manpower, and the fact you can skip t1 or t2 while you can't do that as Ostheer, you have to purchase the base upgrades.

lmao this is some serious rage

Chill out bro, aren't you that guy who wanted a Spanish faction to be in CoH? Pretty impressed you've recovered from that.

Chill out bro, aren't you that guy who wanted a Spanish faction to be in CoH? Pretty impressed you've recovered from that.

me? Spanish faction? what are you smoking XDDD

Then you have the fact that t0 (HQ) for every faction comes with units/upgrades while Ostheer has no upgrades except activating their next tier, and they can only build Pio's from their HQ.

Well tier 1 for Ost unlocks rifle nades as well a tech. So not totally true. Sov pays separately.


I think gren spam can be a bit of a trap and short sighted, because it drains a lot of munis that coukd go towards mg bunkers, mines, shreks and R nades, all good stuff.

And also grens are nearly always draining MP to fight, when Ost are short on MP. Mixing in some mgs and mortars saves MP and muni. Having extra muni allows the grens u do have to use nades ontop of LMG, hence winning an engagement quicker and in turn losing even less MP.

me? Spanish faction? what are you smoking XDDD

Watch this space...

<Whistles Innocently>

Soo... Spanish Civil War for CoH3... that sounds good.

There are mechanics in the game that are just broken or badly designed. Unless they fix things like squad wipes, unit grouping, bazookas sniping units, at guns sniping units etc, any changes to ost are going to be just a general fix.

I just had a game where my pg squad got 359% efficiency and they fired their schreck once at tank ( the howie tank, can't recall name ). How does that amount to 359%, no wonder they think pgs are balanced.

Also had a gren squad wiped by riflesquad with flamer. Basically 2 members went down from bars and the two remaining died from flame crits instantaneously. The issue i have is the lethality off bars or bar blobs. On this occassion the squad was wipped in a couple of seconds ( i watched replay ), almost before i could react.

The game i had was a good example of the power of the usf bar blob and even though i won using CAS, it was only through abuse of strafe that kept me in the game.

Ost cannot be fixed by simply buffs here and there because the balance vs sov will get screwed up. Usf rifles are problem that need fixing first, but they probably need adjusting in regard to okw, who in turn perhaps need some adjustment vs sov t1....

So the solution is probably difficult, not that i am happy the waiting..

Grens spam is THE worst thing you can do with OST. I think building max 3 Grens is good enough with MG/Mortar support to hold the line. Don't forget you need muni for med bunker, LMGs and/or PGs. Also, I usually go scout car against USF and kite from far.

Non-doctrinal changes:

Moves Grens to HQ for starters. Make the Panzerfaust ability require at least Battle Phase 1. Make them better against Allied infantry at long-range (reviving old Volksgrenadier vs. Riflemen dynamic from CoH1). Maybe make them more expensive.

Buff Panzer Grenadiers or make them cheaper to buy or reinforce. Nerf their Panzershreck upgrade to one Shreck and reduce cost to 90 munitions.

Give the Sd.Kfz 251 a Walking Stuka upgrade after Battlephase 3 is purchased. Remove the Panzerwerfer and give it to the OKW. Remove OKW Walking Stuka halftrack.

Would like to see the return of the Motorbike from CoH1 also, but doubt that'll ever happen.