okwunits

I'm talking about things you said like:
- Puma is not worth the asking resource price,
- Kubel is a worthless unit,
- Sturmpios are underperforming.


And now Obers are mediocre without LMG34 which is hilarious because they come equipped with this weapon. The only case it would be justify to use this term is if you would have to buy lmg34 as an upgrade, but as we all know that's not the case.
You can say Grenadiers are mediocre without their lmg upgrade (which I'd argue they aren't) but not Obers.

The way you argue reminds me infamous Nullist. Are you his latest incarnation? Although he played 1v1 almost exclusively so probably not.


This is exact reason why 3v3 heroes shouldn't discuss balance. Because they don't have a clue nor skill. Currently team games are broken because of the impact OKW has on meta game and having even one Wermaht player completely negates resources penalty. Fuel cashes FTW.

Just a lil' nitpick:
3v3 heroes shouldn't discuss 1v1 balance
and
1v1 heroes shouldn't discuss 3v3 balance
Or in general "XvX heroes shouldn't discuss YvY balance"

Anyway, every post regarding balance should specify game mode which it is related, like "in 4v4 Puma is not worth the asking resource price because I have tonns of muni from caches to buy schreks".

Puma is a good unit, the reason you never see it is because you rarely need it. Only when you cant afford a jp4 or panther and your volks are getting overrun by (medium) tanks I would ever consider getting it.

Or when you need to flank KV2's and you have 0 popcap

Anyway, every post regarding balance should specify game mode which it is related, like "in 4v4 Puma is not worth the asking resource price because I have tonns of muni from caches to buy schreks".

Agreed

Puma is a good unit, the reason you never see it is because you rarely need it. Only when you cant afford a jp4 or panther and your volks are getting overrun by (medium) tanks I would ever consider getting it.

Or when you need to flank KV2's and you have 0 popcap

Plz carry me, Jadgpanzer senpai...

BUT THEY HAVE THE MG34 SO WHAT DOES IT MATTER?

Removing or toning down their MG34 is a direct nerf to Obers, so how is anyone wrong saying that Obers should be nerfed?

I agree that Ober's shouldn't start with the MG34, I AGREE WITH YOU.

I'm talking about things you said like:
- Puma is not worth the asking resource price,
- Kubel is a worthless unit,
- Sturmpios are underperforming.


And now Obers are mediocre without LMG34 which is hilarious because they come equipped with this weapon. The only case it would be justify to use this term is if you would have to buy lmg34 as an upgrade, but as we all know that's not the case.
You can say Grenadiers are mediocre without their lmg upgrade (which I'd argue they aren't) but not Obers.

The way you argue reminds me infamous Nullist. Are you his latest incarnation? Although he played 1v1 almost exclusively so probably not.


This is exact reason why 3v3 heroes shouldn't discuss balance. Because they don't have a clue nor skill. Currently team games are broken because of the impact OKW has on meta game and having even one Wermaht player completely negates resources penalty. Fuel cashes FTW.

I said Puma isn't always worth the asking price because there other things you can buy, saying the Puma isn't a counter all unit or at it's prime fighting mediums isn't calling it a shit unit. Obers can't fight tanks does that mean they are crap?

I didn't say the Kubel is worthless, again, stop straw manning. I said it is not hard for a competent player to counter it using basic infantry so acting like it's some giant pillar holding up OKW early game is a tad silly, it's no more good or worse than any other OKW starting unit (except the Rackten atm).

I never said Sturmpio's were under preforming I said that they were not nearly as OP as they used to be and they are fragile. On close range maps 2 Sturms starting can mess stuff up because they are an excellent close range unit, but on open maps it's quite easy to just kill a Sturm off before they can close.

And In this very thread I said Obers are just a regular infantry unit with out the LMG34 because I support either gating the LMG34 behind a large munitions amount or a commander I wouldn't cry big tears of sadness if they just lost it all together and just gained regular StG 44's (which would make more sense).

Finally, for you and everyone else saying people who play more of 1 mode than other make it's so they can only argue balance for that mode

An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments.

OKW is killing me. Vet 4 Obers wiping vet 3 Shocks at close range...

Why axis factions must have everything better? Why?!

OKW is killing me. Vet 4 Obers wiping vet 3 Shocks at close range...

Did your shocks get suppressed? Because if so that's probably what killed them, when Obers reach vet 4-5 it's time to start calling in tactical nuclear strikes (B4) just to be sure.

I agree that Ober's shouldn't start with the MG34, I AGREE WITH YOU.



I said Puma isn't always worth the asking price because there other things you can buy, saying the Puma isn't a counter all unit or at it's prime fighting mediums isn't calling it a shit unit. Obers can't fight tanks does that mean they are crap?

I didn't say the Kubel is worthless, again, stop straw manning. I said it is not hard for a competent player to counter it using basic infantry so acting like it's some giant pillar holding up OKW early game is a tad silly, it's no more good or worse than any other OKW starting unit (except the Rackten atm).

I never said Sturmpio's were under preforming I said that they were not nearly as OP as they used to be and they are fragile. On close range maps 2 Sturms starting can mess stuff up because they are an excellent close range unit, but on open maps it's quite easy to just kill a Sturm off before they can close.

And In this very thread I said Obers are just a regular infantry unit with out the LMG34 because I support either gating the LMG34 behind a large munitions amount or a commander I wouldn't cry big tears of sadness if they just lost it all together and just gained regular StG 44's (which would make more sense).

Finally, for you and everyone else saying people who play more of 1 mode than other make it's so they can only argue balance for that mode

Next time make sure to finalize your thoughts before posting. This way you will avoid changing your opinion and retreating your statements.


I'm done discussing with you regarding OKW as you are seems to be highly biased towards this faction. Playing almost exclusively single faction and single game mode makes your balance opinions invalid and frankly false in most of the cases. Also I conclude you are not interested in game being balanced. All you care about is that your favorite faction, which is absolutely broken in 3v3 and 4v4 modes right now, remain the same way it is so you can enjoy your easy victories.

Did your shocks get suppressed? Because if so that's probably what killed them, when Obers reach vet 4-5 it's time to start calling in tactical nuclear strikes (B4) just to be sure.

No, they were not suppressed.

Next time make sure to finalize your thoughts before posting. This way you will avoid changing your opinion and retreating your statements.


I'm done discussing with you regarding OKW as you are seems to be highly biased towards this faction. Playing almost exclusively single faction and single game mode makes your balance opinions invalid and frankly false in most of the cases. Also I conclude you are not interested in game being balanced. All you care about is that your favorite faction, which is absolutely broken in 3v3 and 4v4 modes right now, remain the same way it is so you can enjoy your easy victories.

I play a majority of Axis 3v3's as I said earlier because that's what many of my friends play, I still do a lot of allies 3's and 4's as well. I also watch a large amount of streams and spend a good amount of time chatting with some quite good 1's players in the COHexpert TS server.

And Iv not changed my opinion, rather, you just love to misrepresent my arguments instead of actually trying to offer any serious rebuttal.

No, they were not suppressed.

The MG34 actually does more DPS than the IR StG's at almost all ranges so I'm not surprised your shocks died, since at vet 4 in addition to suppression Obers have a massive received accuracy bonus.

In most situations for me If I'm ever facing off against Obers of any vet level I make sure to use lots of smoke and indirect fire, at only 4 men at having the same model HP as every other unit they are extremely weak to artillery.

1 squad wipe is 400 MP and a lot of vet down the tubes.

The MG34 actually does more DPS than the IR StG's at almost all ranges so I'm not surprised your shocks died, since at vet 4 in addition to suppression Obers have a massive received accuracy bonus.

In most situations for me If I'm ever facing off against Obers of any vet level I make sure to use lots of smoke and indirect fire, at only 4 men at having the same model HP as every other unit they are extremely weak to artillery.

1 squad wipe is 400 MP and a lot of vet down the tubes.

You see, point is, Shocks and Paras with thompson should melt everything at 0-10 range, while Grens and Obers should do that at long range.
Grens are fine, when you get close with Shocks, you need to retreat. Obers - long range units don't have to do that cause they will still win. Long range unit is winning against close range in CQ!

Not to mention STGs which give you CQ dps at almost the same level as Shocks and at long range it like Grens with LMG.
Also ignoring cover - WTF?!

You see, point is, Shocks and Paras with thompson should melt everything at 0-10 range, while Grens and Obers should do that at long range.
Grens are fine, when you get close with Shocks, you need to retreat. Obers - long range units don't have to do that cause they will still win. Long range unit is winning against close range in CQ!

Not to mention STGs which give you CQ dps at almost the same level as Shocks and at long range it like Grens with LMG.
Also ignoring cover - WTF?!

The IR StG is a downgrade from the MG34 in almost every way, it's best bonus is being able to clear units out of cover which OKW lacks pretty hard since they have exactly 1 good indirect fire unit.

And Grens are not fine, they lose out to even cons at an early stage in the game due to being 4 men and lacking enough long range DPS to damage a squad enough so they can't just get in your face and wipe you.

My solution to the Obers problem has already been stated, take away the MG34 and give them 2 normal StG 44's. The IR upgrade would just give them better range and ability to negate cover. I also think that Shocks and Thompson should get a medium range buff and a close range nerf.

You see, point is, Shocks and Paras with thompson should melt everything at 0-10 range, while Grens and Obers should do that at long range.
Grens are fine, when you get close with Shocks, you need to retreat. Obers - long range units don't have to do that cause they will still win. Long range unit is winning against close range in CQ!

Not to mention STGs which give you CQ dps at almost the same level as Shocks and at long range it like Grens with LMG.
Also ignoring cover - WTF?!

Doesnt ignore it. Just gets an accuracy bonus to hit it. Green cover still absorbs damage etc. Just negates the accuracy part and more or less makes light cover pointless..

The IR StG is a downgrade from the MG34 in almost every way, it's best bonus is being able to clear units out of cover which OKW lacks pretty hard since they have exactly 1 good indirect fire unit.

And Grens are not fine, they lose out to even cons at an early stage in the game due to being 4 men and lacking enough long range DPS to damage a squad enough so they can't just get in your face and wipe you.

My solution to the Obers problem has already been stated, take away the MG34 and give them 2 normal StG 44's. The IR upgrade would just give them better range and ability to negate cover. I also think that Shocks and Thompson should get a medium range buff and a close range nerf.

How Stg is a downgrade? Yes you lose long range DPS from 25 to 14 which is same DPS Grens have with LMG while your CQ dps is 64 (shocks 71) and you can ignore cover. Downgrade, really?

They lose to Cons in first 5mins but then you get LMG and you melt cons.

The IR StG is a downgrade from the MG34 in almost every way, it's best bonus is being able to clear units out of cover which OKW lacks pretty hard since they have exactly 1 good indirect fire unit.

And Grens are not fine, they lose out to even cons at an early stage in the game due to being 4 men and lacking enough long range DPS to damage a squad enough so they can't just get in your face and wipe you.

My solution to the Obers problem has already been stated, take away the MG34 and give them 2 normal StG 44's. The IR upgrade would just give them better range and ability to negate cover. I also think that Shocks and Thompson should get a medium range buff and a close range nerf.

I dont think IR STGs are downgrade at all what so ever. Obers with these upgrades melt shocks, and all before it in seconds. The whole point of this upgrade is to use this commander in close quarter maps and not like steppes.

I suggest you watch ImperialDane's video where he discusses the damage distribution with Grens (4 man) vs Cons (6 man) in detail.

Solution to Obers = munition upgrade to their lmg like every other unit in the game. OKW needs more muni dump than just shreks.

How Stg is a downgrade? Yes you lose long range DPS from 25 to 14 which is same DPS Grens have with LMG while your CQ dps is 64 (shocks 71) and you can ignore cover. Downgrade, really?

They lose to Cons in first 5mins but then you get LMG and you melt cons.

The lose of long range DPS is a pretty huge kick in the balls when you other alternative for long range DPS is Volks which don't beat out even vet 0 cons till vet 3. And being better in close range isn't much comfort when your enemy normally has more than just 1 shock troop and other stuff following behind.

In CQC you have much less time to react, and at a 4 man squad being to ballsy can easily net you a loss which is devastating as that's 90 munitions down the toilet plus 400 MP.

Not to mention I'll think you will find the first 5-8 minutes of a game is actually quite crucial, it really isn't a obscure fact that Ostheer has quite poor early game.

The lose of long range DPS is a pretty huge kick in the balls when you other alternative for long range DPS is Volks which don't beat out even vet 0 cons till vet 3. And being better in close range isn't much comfort when your enemy normally has more than just 1 shock troop and other stuff following behind.

In CQC you have much less time to react, and at a 4 man squad being to ballsy can easily net you a loss which is devastating as that's 90 munitions down the toilet plus 400 MP.

Not to mention I'll think you will find the first 5-8 minutes of a game is actually quite crucial, it really isn't a obscure fact that Ostheer has quite poor early game.

They still have 14dps at long range - like Grens with LMG.
4 man squad with insane veterancy

I dont think IR STGs are downgrade at all what so ever. Obers with these upgrades melt shocks, and all before it in seconds. The whole point of this upgrade is to use this commander in close quarter maps and not like steppes.

I suggest you watch ImperialDane's video where he discusses the damage distribution with Grens (4 man) vs Cons (6 man) in detail.

Solution to Obers = munition upgrade to their lmg like every other unit in the game. OKW needs more muni dump than just shreks.

The problem with the LMG34 goes beyond Obers, it's super powerful independent of the squad using it. And yes I understand that the point of the commander is for use in close range combat in an Urban environment, StG IR Obers excel at it, but at the cost of losing long range fire power. It's actually a pretty good example of a cost benefit scenario.

Iv seen Imperial Danes video, but it doesn't take into account that fact that your opponent will have more cons then you have grens because you don't need to build a tech building to get cons. Grens versus cons is much more balanced to be sure, compared to Riflemen versus Grens, but to say Grens are a amazing early game unit is dishonest.

They still have 14dps at long range - like Grens with LMG.
4 man squad with insane veterancy

Yes they still have the small chance to snipe the gunner of a MG like grens do with the LMG, but your much more likely to do that with a LMG34 and that's why you don't see that many IR StG Obers compared to people just leaving them with the 34.

As I have said before, I fully support getting rid of the LMG34 and just giving Obers some regular StG 44's to start.