How DOTA became a successful esport

The early days are almost identical to COH2.

Yes very similar

There are vey big difference - dota is f2p.
In this case no chance for coh.

There are vey big difference - dota is f2p.
In this case no chance for coh.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the early days of dota, it wasn't f2p, you needed warcraft 3 to play it, right?

There are vey big difference - dota is f2p.
In this case no chance for coh.

You can say that DOTA is "f2p", but in reality most players make some sort of transaction involving any popular DOTA. In LoL, it's skins and champions, or experience boosts. In DOTA2, it's items that add a cosmetic difference to one or more of your champions. When COH2 goes on sale (Like it had 3 seperate times during the Holiday season last year), it's cost is comparative to the cost of a couple champions, skins, or in DOTA2's case, items. So this statement is fucking dumb (just like your avatar) and makes very little sense.

I think most people who were there in the early days of vCoH will remember a very similar instance of balance issues like there is currently with CoH2. Over time those issues were more or less ironed out and as a result a much more balanced game emerged. I'd like to think that something similar will happen with CoH2, and I think it's reasonable to assume that this will be the case.

Interesting.

So Dota is succsesfull beceause of..
-an appealing game design
-it was made for being played by competitive player base
-there was enough money

I guess especially icefrog listing to the community was a very important step. It shows what one man can achive.

Comparing CoH2 with Dota is pointless imho. CoH2 wasn't made to be played in a competitive environment. In fact RElic even shift the focus on single player content.

You can say that DOTA is "f2p", but in reality most players make some sort of transaction involving any popular DOTA

Ehem, ehem...
"Free-to-play (F2P) refers to video games which give players access to a significant portion of their content without paying."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

Dota 1 could be considered even completely free, there were ton of servers which required no legal copy of war3 to play and was aimed for Dota players mainly.

Back to OP, this statement regarding similarity is false:

-In terms of game evolutionary phase it is more comparable to vCoH. Dota 1 was based on SC's AoS map while CoH2 as a RTS title with squad based and point capturing mechanics had multiple predeccessor (inhouse) like DoW, vCoH, CoHO, Dow2 (and their expansions).
- Icefrog listened to the community. (of course there were instances were Relic listened but that was sparse and it was mostly on balance not game mechanics and design)
- Dota was available in a vastly popular game, Warcraft 3 with millions of users (plus another few millions with illegal cpoies) with a vastly popular developer.
- Dota genre was made by few eager individuals. CoH2 has company backup and a publisher, so external pressure are applied to it, in terms of were it could go.
- Dota genre is f2p, so every one could try it. Coh2 is a title with upfront cost, plus the DLC policy made it a bit of negative "pay2win" reputation.

It was stated in the documentary that a major reason the mod/game headed where it did was because icefrog listened to and engaged with the players.

You can say that DOTA is "f2p", but in reality most players make some sort of transaction involving any popular DOTA. In LoL, it's skins and champions, or experience boosts. In DOTA2, it's items that add a cosmetic difference to one or more of your champions. When COH2 goes on sale (Like it had 3 seperate times during the Holiday season last year), it's cost is comparative to the cost of a couple champions, skins, or in DOTA2's case, items. So this statement is fucking dumb (just like your avatar) and makes very little sense.

I think most people who were there in the early days of vCoH will remember a very similar instance of balance issues like there is currently with CoH2. Over time those issues were more or less ironed out and as a result a much more balanced game emerged. I'd like to think that something similar will happen with CoH2, and I think it's reasonable to assume that this will be the case.

the thing is in dota, buying cosmetics gives you no advantage. you can play and enjoy the game without having to spend a single dime and not lose out on anything.

You are talking about community growth, but in reality we are still stuck on step 1 which is have a game that caters to competitive multiplayer. If you build it they will come. Relic hasn't built it.

its because its fucking simple!

-its not hard to micro 1 single unit

-its built on memorising dozens of special abilities. everyone can do that. and then people confuse it with "skill"

-its a team game for multiple players --> so people can blame other people when they lose

the thing is in dota, buying cosmetics gives you no advantage. you can play and enjoy the game without having to spend a single dime and not lose out on anything.

Buying in game currency to purchase new champions, however, does give you an advantage.

Buying in game currency to purchase new champions, however, does give you an advantage.

That's like saying buying US forces gives you an advantage.

You are talking about community growth, but in reality we are still stuck on step 1 which is have a game that caters to competitive multiplayer. If you build it they will come. Relic hasn't built it.

+1

CoH 2 has a lot of potential but there are too many things holding it back at the moment.

Maybe one day after Relic gets rid of constant 1 shot squad wipes, batshit overpowered units (KT, Tiger, Tiger Ace, Obers, IS 2), skill planes, fixes call-ins, fixes Soviet & Wehr faction design... oh boy I don't even want to keep going.

We can only hope...

That's like saying buying US forces gives you an advantage.

No, but numerous times in the past DLC commanders have. Hell, DLC commanders still give major advantages. Just look at how often Fortifications was used as OKW in the most recent 1v1 tournament. Not to mention the abominations of old - Tiger Ace/Windustry.

If only you could trade in duplicate war spoils for new commanders... might finally fix the stupid DLC issues we've all complained about since day 0.

That's like saying buying US forces gives you an advantage.

Some might argue that buying US forces does give you an advantage.

Buying in game currency to purchase new champions, however, does give you an advantage.

As you have noted, Dota 2 is totally free of ANY P2W whatso ever.
And if we can't call a game like that Free2Play, I don't know anymore. What you are looking for is a charity game?

LoL champions are maybe a bit of a problem, but I can say that I personally have never bought a champion or xp boost in LoL whatsoever for real money. (On the other hand I have spend tons of money on Skins). And that while playing 3000+ games in it. And I have never felt the urge to buy a Champion for real money. But I might agree that its different if you would start with LoL now.

Now if a Champion gives you an advantage... on the highest level of play yes. For 95% of the players? No.



Now, to not take it out of context, what I can see from your first post you are arguing that the price point of LoL/Dota in comparison to CoH2, is no problem for its success.

That is wrong. If I ask my friends: "Hey, wanna try a round of CoH2?" they say: "Öh, I won't pay 10 $ to try it.".
If I ask(ed) my friends to play LoL, they were like: "I just have to click download, no cost, no direct dissatvantages? Sign me up, I will play a round."

Dota 1 needed you to buy Warcraft, but many people already had that. So Dota was basically free 2 play, especially with cracked versions around everywhere.


And it would be nice if you wouldn't insult people, wether you are right or not.

That was a super awesome documentary. Absolutely worth the watch.

Maybe one day Relic can learn from Valve and we can learn from the DoTA 2 community. The community has to want it. Relic can't magically make CoH 2 an esport... although they do have to give us a more polished game to work with.

Buying in game currency to purchase new champions, however, does give you an advantage.

you dont need to buy heroes in dota. literally the only thing you buy is cosmetics.

in my opinion the reason why league and dota are much more successful esports is because of the significantly higher skill cap as well as having a much more variety of possible strategies thanks to having 100+ heroes are your disposal.

you dont need to buy heroes in dota. literally the only thing you buy is cosmetics.

in my opinion the reason why league and dota are much more successful esports is because of the significantly higher skill cap as well as having a much more variety of possible strategies thanks to having 100+ heroes are your disposal.

Even picking and banning probably has a higher skill cap than CoH 2.